#750 Tour De Force

September 7, 2022Scott Benner

Pam has had type 1 diabetes for 50 years.

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Scott Benner 0:00
You are listening to Episode 750 of the Juicebox Podcast

we are all in for a real treat today because Pam has had type one diabetes for a very long time, and she's going to share a lot of it with us today, you're gonna learn about diabetes, you're going to learn about being married about love and loss and life. It's a tour de force this episode. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, and are a US resident or our US resident, and are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes, go to T one D exchange.org. Ford slash juicebox. complete the survey. And you've helped someone with type one diabetes, you may have helped yourself and you've definitely helped the show. T one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox completely HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous. It only takes 10 minutes or less.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Arden uses it. We love it. And you can have one to contour next one.com forward slash juice box.

Pam 1:57
Hi, I'm Pamela. And I've had type one diabetes for 50 years.

Scott Benner 2:02
And Pamela you're 51 years old. Is that right?

Pam 2:06
No, I was diagnosed at 22.

Scott Benner 2:09
Okay, you're 72 years old.

Pam 2:13
72 years young.

Scott Benner 2:15
You know, the other day, someone made a big deal to me that I didn't look my age. And as I was having the conversation with him, I kept saying I'm 50 years old. And we turned around and took three steps away. And Arden says you know you're 51 Right. And good. And I said no, I am not. Is that what happened my last birthday? And she's like, Yeah, your last birthday? You were 51? I said, Oh, I have to stop saying I'm 50 then. Anyway, 70 TuesdayA feels like quite an accomplishment, I imagine.

Pam 2:46
Yeah, I guess 72 is the new 50 though, isn't it?

Scott Benner 2:49
Is that what they're gonna say? That's what I've heard or read. Is that Did you read that in a place where you're, you're back didn't hurt or

Pam 2:59
nothing hurts on me. Thank God.

Scott Benner 3:03
Oh, yeah, let's let's find out a little bit about all that. That's probably something else. So 20 G's 22 years old. 50 years ago? What year was that?

Pam 3:13
Around 1972. Wow. Because I was 17 in 1967 when I graduated high school and so.

Scott Benner 3:25
So I'm going to tell you I was born in 71. So that's probably about right on.

Pam 3:31
Perfect. Yeah, I think that is right. Uh huh. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:34
Do you remember anything about that at all?

Pam 3:37
Oh, yeah. I was living in Los Angeles. I was a professional singer, musician. And I was losing weight. But I didn't notice it because I'm pretty thin anyway. And so if you lose, if you're losing two pounds, you know, a month. I kept thinking, well, I exercise a lot. I'm just toning up, you know. And I went home to visit my folks in Kansas City. And they took one look at me, and they said, get on the scale. You know, I didn't even own a scale. So my dad says, Your 90 pounds, you know, I thought Oh, God. And I remember when I was in LA that I was in the movie theater with a girlfriend I was holding up. I don't even know how big they are those huge family size Cokes. I mean, I never drink that stuff anymore. But she said, Pam, I'm embarrassed. We're in a movie theater and you're holding up this whatever. 64 ounce bottle. So I guess I was really starving for sugar. Right? Right. And I was so my parents said Tomorrow morning, we're going to go to your cousin who's a urologist and he's going to check you out. up. I was in his office for a few seconds. And he said, You're going to the hospital? So my blood sugar was 1200.

Scott Benner 5:10
Wow. How long do you think that had been going on before you made it to the doc problems?

Pam 5:16
Probably at least a year or two, maybe it was lower. And it just kept getting more and more, I really don't know. You know, I had no way to know. But I went into the hospital and a woman who was very nice, came in and showed me how to inject myself with insulin. She showed me on an orange and then every time I chewed it into myself, I think that the orange, so I'm just gonna sip a little water here, you're fine. So and then another woman came. And she said, I've been diabetic for, I don't know, 40 years, she was probably in her 50s. And she told me that she had no complications. She told me what she did everything she did was, you know, good. And I thought that's going to be me. And I felt so good after having insulin. Oh, my God. I was like the old knee again. Right. So it wasn't depressing for me. It was a rescue. Thank you. Yeah, no, no, of course. So that's, that's that was my beginning.

Scott Benner 6:27
Wow. How did you make it out to LA to be a singer? Because that's not what you ended up doing through your life. Is that right?

Pam 6:34
Well, I did that for 20 years. I was I played Funny Girl in Fanny. I played Fanny Brice and Funny Girl musical in high school. And I decided that I was going to devote my life to music. And I, my parents, I knew if I said I want to move to LA, they would have said, No, you have to go to college. So I was in my sophomore year I, I went to USC, and they had a musical comedy workshop with the Civic light opera that I got into. And so they would work with me every night while I went to college. And then I dropped out because I got on a TV show. And I dropped out of school. And then my you know, my parents were thrilled. And they watched me and you know, it was all good. All right,

Scott Benner 7:18
Pamela, what TV show? Are you on? Pam?

Pam 7:21
Oh, God. I mean, this is the Flintstone era. Right. Let's see. That was Jim Nabors musical variety show. Really? Yeah. You know, go. He used to play Gomer Pile.

Scott Benner 7:35
I know, I know who you're talking about. I'm, I'm worried that I know what you're talking about. Even more worse? Scary. You said that like, oh, well, you're not gonna know what I'm saying. But I know, that's what you like a background singer or a player? Well,

Pam 7:53
they, they, I was the ethnic girl. They had an African American woman, you know, a blonde and I was the brunette and there were four guys and four women. And we would sing, you know, with Jim and do skits. And I mean, just everything really, it was really fun. But after a year, I thought, I'm going to end up like these other women being BACKUP SINGERS for the rest of my life. So I quit. And I started traveling, you know, to Japan and the Playboy Club circuit and all you know, that's what I did for 20 years. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 8:31
have to tell you, the funniest thing is that at that time, what passed for an ethnic girl was a was a white girl from Kansas with dark hair.

Pam 8:40
A Jewish girl. Oh,

Scott Benner 8:42
I see. I see. That's how I got. That's what passed for ethnicity at that point.

Pam 8:48
Right. Right. Right, by

Scott Benner 8:51
the way, and not for nothing. How did the Jewish person ended up in Kansas?

Pam 8:55
You know, there are millions of people in Kansas. I mean, they're just an incredibly large amount.

Scott Benner 9:02
There's, I didn't realize there was a big community there. That's interesting. Yeah. Huge. That's something so All right. Well, I now think you're famous from this story. And anybody my age or older believes that but everyone younger is like she said, Jim Nabors, I don't know what that means. I know. I know. It's very interesting. Okay, so so when you went home and you were diagnosed, did you ever go back to LA or did they did that? Is that what brought you home?

Pam 9:33
No, I had just gone to you know, I was diagnosed and and I went to the hospital and once I felt good, I went back to LA did

Scott Benner 9:39
go back. Okay. Yeah. How much longer did you stay?

Pam 9:44
20 years. Oh, wow. No, I left when I was 40 years old, and I moved back to Kansas City. And when I was 43, I met my late husband, who was incredible and we were married 30 years. He I got a year and a half ago. And so that's why I'm back in Kansas City. But I love Kansas City. I mean, I, you know, I grew up here so

Scott Benner 10:08
yeah, I'm sorry Kansas City, Kansas, Kansas City, Missouri,

Pam 10:13
Overland Park, Kansas. Okay. Okay. And I, well, when I up till nine, I was in Missouri, and then we moved across the state line a few blocks, and I was in Kansas. So

Scott Benner 10:25
first, a change of pace. Okay, so there's a lot of richness going on here. Hold on a second. So after you decided, I don't want to be a backup singer anymore. You were still in LA for quite some time. So what did you do between those years?

Pam 10:38
Right. I was so lucky. I got my agent booked me in Japan. And I got to go to Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto. And I would be like a tourist in the day and I would explore and then at night, I'd sing with a great big 17 piece band, I had big band charts that my arranger made for me, and the stage would be spinning around and there were all these Japanese or Asian men, there were no women. And then I would sing, you know, and then, you know, maybe Osaka and Kyoto there might have just been a trio. And then I did the Playboy circuit, which was really an archaic. I'm sure no one that's 30 years old, even has ever heard of it or even 40 but they'd have a comedian open, and then I would sing after that.

Scott Benner 11:35
Okay. Pam, you for clarity. You had your clothes on while you were saying,

Pam 11:39
oh, oh, yeah, I was really I was already a feminist at that age. I was I was kind of like, not happy these women had to wear those bunny suits. It was I thought it was really weird. But you know,

Scott Benner 11:52
so interesting. Wow. So you made a living like that that whole time? You never married in that time?

Pam 11:58
No, I you know, I had this I made this vow you know that I was going to sing until I was famous and and you know, I recorded with Richard carpenter after his sister died, but a&m Records was afraid to put me on with with him. So they got Dionne Warwick instead. And Dusty Springfield, they thought because it was his solo album, and they thought that would sell better. But, you know, after that, I was pretty disappointed. And I, I decided that I was kind of burnout that I wanted to go home and be near my family.

Scott Benner 12:33
So So through all this time, the 70s the 80s. I mean, when did you move home? What year? Do you remember?

Pam 12:40
Yes. 1990. Okay,

Scott Benner 12:43
so 70s 80s Up until 1990. You're living this life in a world where diabetes management is pretty shaky. So how did you think about your diabetes during that time? Or did you not or how did it?

Pam 12:57
Oh, I did. I had my cousin out there knew the best endocrinologist I think, honestly, in the face of the earth at that time, Dr. Sherman Hovey, and he was president of the ADEA. He had a support group, he had a diabetic educator, he had you could call anytime, day or night, and somebody would be there to help you. It was unbelievable. And he told me, Pam, you know, you have a couple choices here. Your you can either take care of yourself, exercise, measure your food, with your insulin, and you know, I've always eaten a lot of carbs. And, or, you know, don't do those things. And you can you might suffer the complication. So I thought he was my inspiration really, he? He inspired me to. He said he ran on the beach every morning, five miles, you know, and I thought, okay, I can do that. Yeah. So. So anyway, I kind of had good role models,

Scott Benner 14:05
okay. And what was management? Like? I mean, you were animal insulin at first, right?

Pam 14:10
Oh, my God. We had urine sticks. That's how we checked our blood sugar. If it was dark green, you were super high. If it was really light green, you were wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 14:23
So that was the whole thing. Yeah, that was it.

Pam 14:27
And then your years later, they came out with glucose glucose meters with foot kilometer.

Scott Benner 14:34
They were bigger back then though, right?

Pam 14:38
Yeah. And I thought, you know, I was living alone. And I thought, I'll just check my blood sugar 10 times a day because that way, I won't blackout and you know, that that'll be that'll be the best way to go. And I was singing, you know, and so on the 45 Minute shows and you go into the bathroom. On the break, check your blood sugar, come back out. And, you know, so that's just what I did. Because singing burns up a lot of glucose, you know, you're jumping around and all that. Yeah. Pam, did

Scott Benner 15:11
you blackout frequently?

Pam 15:14
No. The only time I had one blackout. Well, two and 50 years I've had to. I was driving on the freeway from Santa St. I can't remember where I was San Diego or somewhere. I would did a recording session. And the person that was recording me took me to dinner. Just a nice guy, you know, friends, and I don't drink. I still don't drink. But that night, I probably had a fourth have a glass of wine. And I probably was so focused on talking that I didn't think about my carbs. So. So my car. Yeah, so I blacked out. Wow. Yeah, and I'm alive. I mean, is a miracle. Really?

Scott Benner 16:05
Was that? Did you ever seizure? Yeah, that's how you would put it right. And how did you I would call it how did you come back from it? Like did someone help you? Or

Pam 16:13
well, I was, you know, 65 miles an hour on the freeway I pulled into I didn't know who I was or where I was I it was like a surreal nightmare.

Scott Benner 16:32
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Pam 19:33
And I pulled in to the side of the freeway, the left side and the police were knocking on my window. And I thought I guess eventually I opened the door and they took me to the hospital. I probably had a diabetic bracelet on and that was sat and the other time when I was married my husband You know, he knew when I was acting strange that my blood sugar was low. And so he wanted to call paramedics. I said, No, do not call them I was like banging on his arm, which I've never would do normally. And then the next thing you know, he said, I was out laying on the floor, you know, so that was my two escapades never had anything since. And I've never I don't think I ever will, because I'm so well controlled. And I, you know, I've Dexcom and all that. So,

Scott Benner 20:28
yes, back. So back in those days, though, in the beginning, did they measure a one C or how did you measure? Yeah.

Pam 20:35
Oh, yeah. I was about in the high fives.

Scott Benner 20:38
Okay. Did you eat a particular diet? Or?

Pam 20:42
Yeah, okay, I did the the woman that taught me at Dr. holdings office told me, you know, I would eat four carbs a meal 20 grams of fat because the fat slows down the rise of glucose. Fruit. And they gave me a booklet, you know, that diabetic booklet with all the little foods and how much they Yeah, the equation. And so what else do I have? All of that every day? Every day? Yeah, tons and tons of carbs. But now, you know, as I got older, I started doing research when I could on the phone and saw that high fiber doesn't escalate your blood sugar very much. And so, I mean, now I've been eating high fiber for almost all a great part of those 50 years. And, you know, people talk about how diabetic people say they want to eat chocolate cake, or, you know, I haven't wanted that because I'll eat a mango. 90 grams of a mango is 15 carbs. So I put it on my little scale. And it's to me the best, you know, my taste buds have changed.

Scott Benner 21:55
You probably you prefer the sweetness come from? From some natural from fruit. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Pam 22:04
No, I just said I don't like to take chances. And so I don't, it's not worth it to me to go out and you know, have a hot fudge sundae when I don't even want it anyway. I mean, the thought of it almost gags I know what it would do to me, you know, and then I'd have to chase the blood sugar with it. The pump the Dexcom in the My Omni pod, and I'm looping with the Reilly link which is changed my life. Right? That, you know, I? I mean, I guess I know that type one. People with type one do do that. They can't they eat something real sweet. And they work it out. And there's things you can do with your Reilly link or whatever looping device you're on. But for me, I just don't want to take the chance because I like I said, it's not a big deal. So I don't crave that stuff.

Scott Benner 23:00
Yeah. Would you consider yourself a lower carb eater like your overall daily carbs?

Pam 23:06
Well, I have four for breakfast for for lunch and five for dinner.

Scott Benner 23:09
And that includes the fruit. Yeah. Wow.

Pam 23:14
And then the 20 grams of fat, which does not it's not the lean meat included in the lean meat. It's outside of that. And then what else? I don't know.

Scott Benner 23:23
Damn, I gotta tell you, you're 72 and I'm gonna ask I'm gonna start eating your diet.

Pam 23:30
Well, you know, it's really good. I mean, my cholesterol is so low. My a one C is a five. Now I don't recommend that for anyone listening to this program. But for me, it works because I'm very careful. And I exercise the first thing after breakfast, I'm on the treadmill. 30 minutes and then I do yoga. I'm a yoga teacher now, last 30 to 4050 20 years. So you know I do I stand on my head. I do all kinds of crazy stuff. But all works and then I go about my day. So that's my life. Basically.

Scott Benner 24:08
I want to pick through it a little more with you got up this morning. You ate breakfast. What do you have?

Pam 24:14
I the same thing for breakfast every day. High fiber waffle. It's got 21 carbs and then fruit, apple sauce on my oatmeal with and I became lactose intolerant this year, which is really fun. So I take these lactose pills and then I have lactose, you know no lactose yogurt, but I still have to take them because I react anyway. So that's what I eat. And then what else? I guess that's it. Peanut butter. Peanut butter on the waffle. Oh, not almond butter. I used to do peanut butter. I'm almond butters real super healthy. My endocrinologist in California told me so.

Scott Benner 24:57
I'm confused about one thing so a second ago. I thought you said the waffle had like 21 carbs in it. Is that right does oatmeal, but earlier you said like like three and four and five at a meal but what I'm misunderstanding, okay, you're saying okay,

Pam 25:13
okay, so the oatmeal has 20 carbs that brings it up to 41 The fruit has 1541 and 15 is 56. And then I'll eat one Triscuit

Scott Benner 25:30
Oh, so you have a meal with like over 50 carbs in it for breakfast.

Pam 25:35
It's got 60 yet 60 Really? Okay. And then

Scott Benner 25:38
how much insulin is that for you in the morning?

Pam 25:41
Well, I can tell you that my overall Basal rate all day is to 2.1 It used to be for

Scott Benner 25:50
weight tell me 2.1 An hour or 2.1?

Pam 25:53
No all day. My Basal right now that's without the food. You know, that's just my you know, Basal

Scott Benner 26:00
way I'm fine. Hold on one second. I'm getting I'm pulling up a calculator. I know we were gonna have so much fun. Hold on a second. All right. So if you're doing I'm just going to round it and say two divided by 24. You're getting less than point one an hour and Basal. How much less than point one

Pam 26:22
or around No, point. It's it's point 05 points all day. And all night except for o 10. You know, for two hours in the afternoon and at night. It's 25 and 35. What do you know, one hour of 25 and one hour of 35? How much do you know? Oh point 35.

Scott Benner 26:46
Yeah, yeah. How much do you weigh?

Pam 26:49
118 117.

Scott Benner 26:51
Is this a chair? Okay, so did you. I'm assuming you. Pam I am assuming you went through menopause like 20 years ago. But oh, yeah. But But But prior to that, were you on a pump prior to menopause? Know what your basil your total daily basil was before?

Pam 27:13
Oh, yeah, it was so much higher. It was like all day long was a whole bunch of insulin like you know, 20 Oh, oh, point 30. That hour. And then oh point 50. Another hour? You know, it was It was

Scott Benner 27:27
wild. So if you're if you were prior to this, like a half a unit an hour, and now you're not even you're not even a unit? Yeah, you're so low, so much lower. So but do you think that's is that the change is the loss of the hormone fluctuations? That changed?

Pam 27:44
Oh, no, it's the it's the the Riley Link has changed my life.

Scott Benner 27:52
I'm sorry. So you're using loop right with?

Pam 27:54
I'm looping Yeah, changed my life. So I have

Scott Benner 27:58
and so the loop is, is keeping you super steady with a lower Basal rate. But you're making up for the insulin you need at meal. So your your what's your insulin to carb ratio? Do you know?

Pam 28:11
Yeah. 115 grams of carb to one unit of insulin one to

Scott Benner 28:16

Okay, so you're one to 15 You have a very low Basal rate. Do you notice the loop giving you extra Basal during the day? Or is it fairly stable?

Pam 28:26
You know, when if I'm under stress, I'll hear it going beep beep you know, I'm going Oh, thank you, you know. And then I found this override, just lately. Boy did that change? Well, that let's see, the override is good. Because I took an improv class lately, just for fun. First time I went there was kind of stressful. And so I put the override on, you know, for a temporary Basal. And it asks you what, what amount of how high you want your blood sugar to go, how low and how high and you fill it in. And then it just during that time that I was at the the first improv class I wasn't I was my blood sugar's were perfect. Instead of me bolusing for stress and giving myself two units of insulin and then have have to, you know, it's like a roller coaster.

Scott Benner 29:24
So you turrible you go to that little, you go to that little icon at the bottom of the app, the heart, you touch that right? And then you roll up to what G like, would you use 130%? Or where did you go to? Do you remember? Well, it's

Pam 29:37
not a percent they they asked you what range you want your blood sugar, right, like, you know, so I put it low. I don't want to tell people because I don't want anyone to get into trouble.

Scott Benner 29:48
You okay, so you just changed your target so that it would be a little more aggressive. Oh, look at you. So you didn't change the strength of the algorithm by rolling up the percentage you just changed your turn. Get to be louder.

Pam 30:01
Yeah, just for that hour or two or Yeah. You know, I was I was on stage doing this improv and I could hear my little thing going. And I was like, Oh, thank you. It's like a human pancreas, you

Scott Benner 30:13
know, feels good when something's looking out for you, that's for sure. Yeah, you're like,

Pam 30:17
Oh, thank you without putting my Dexcom on the attentive, I always have on the 10 of sound. And you know, God, how embarrassing that would be during an improv.

Scott Benner 30:28
You could just, you could just improv right around the noise I would have. Yeah,

Pam 30:31
yeah. It's Aliens. Aliens have landed.

Scott Benner 30:35
How long have you been using loop?

Pam 30:43
Let's see about three years, three or four years. You said yourself? No, no, no. So I was teaching yoga outdoors at this hot springs, and 10 women or 15 women walk in wearing Omni pods they have bikinis on because it's people go swimming. And I ran up to them after the class. And I said, I wear an omni pod to and some had pumps with the tubing, you know, and everybody was proud. It was like they were being Bold. Bold was insulin. Right, right. So they said, Don't you know about the Reilly link? I said, No. And they told me and I went ahead and ordered it in my, my husband, my late husband's brother, was a genius, launched a lot of spaceships and T peep, set it up. And then my husband watched. And then every time I had to replace it, my husband would know what to do. When I moved to Kansas City, he was passed on and so I had to hire somebody because I I'm just not a tech person. No, I

Scott Benner 31:47
remember a half an hour ago, when we got on this call, I didn't think you were a tech person.

Pam 31:55
I mean, I think to myself, I can't imagine what anyone listening to this show that's 20 or 30 is thinking because they're just eating whatever they want most people and they don't want to live this crazy life. But to me, it isn't crazy. But it looks crazy. I guess, you know,

Scott Benner 32:12
I don't know about that. Pam. I also think that as you get older, I don't, maybe everybody doesn't feel this way. But some things lose their luster. And for me eating was one of them. Like, I don't know if that makes sense. Like I realized how much eating was around. I guess community, right, and social socialization and then, you know, I, my my mom's birthday was recently my mom turned 80. We had her over, she wanted steak and shrimp and we made all this stuff. And I had I had steak leftover. And for days afterwards, my kids would like, they're like, hey, it's lunchtime. What are we going to have? Well, Dad's gonna eat that steak. And I just be like, yeah, it's good. Like, I don't need it to be. I don't know. Like, I don't need it to be a whole big different thing constantly. Yeah, I don't know if that's a thing that comes with age or not.

Pam 33:04
Maybe Yeah, cuz i i really like my, I mean, I different things sometimes at night, but in the day, it's very similar.

Scott Benner 33:14
You know, I'm taking any supplements or have you over the years.

Pam 33:16
Oh, yeah, I take I take like, you know, everything. Vitamin C, multi. E, flax oil. You know, all that vitamin beta carotene. All that stuff? No

Scott Benner 33:31
kidding. Did you and your husband have kids? No, no. Was that like, because of your age? or diabetes? Or what?

Pam 33:40
No, he had a daughter. And so he felt like it would make her feel bad, you know, that? We would because we're living in Kansas City and she was out in California. So that's what we you know, that's that was a decision. And you know, as a result of that, I've been in a lot of programs with like Big Brothers Big Sisters. Now I am and then a diabetic program with Children's Hospital where you mentored a type one child, so I always have a child in my life. It's I love children. Yeah. It's very important to me.

Scott Benner 34:14
Was it disappointing to you not to have kids or,

Pam 34:16
you know, I don't think at the time I kept thinking, Well, my husband has a daughter, it'd be like our daughter, you know, even though she's out of town. And so that's kind of how I, you know,

Scott Benner 34:28
kind of, Pam, you probably dodged a bullet. If I'm being honest with you. Every day these kids seem to want something you're needed or I don't know. Good. Or they have emotions. You have to tend to or there's a lot Sure yeah, no, that's that's interesting. And I looked at your LinkedIn I've seen you've done a lot of nice things over your life.

Pam 34:50
Thanks. Yeah, good. It's so a few I looked at your your you've done a lot of good writing and

Scott Benner 34:57
you're very tight. You don't be nice to me, Pam. It's okay. We're Talking to true. Oh, it's true. I, I, that's very interesting. I try to come off like just like a big dummy that makes this podcast. Is that working Pam? Or do you think I'm not getting away with it?

Pam 35:11
No, I think you're, I think you're very understanding. I've listened to a lot of them. And I learned I've learned a lot. I kept thinking, what can I learn, right? But, of course, there's always so much to learn. And, you know, for instance, I learned setting your warning sign that you're going to get low, higher than, like, I had it on like, 65. Well, by that time, that's crazy, isn't it? So even though I do have a signal that says you're starting to go low, so anyway, I've changed that. I've learned I've just learned a lot.

Scott Benner 35:47
Yeah, I appreciate that very much. Okay, so did you know many type ones throughout your life?

Pam 35:57
Yeah, they, they didn't take care of themselves and make this some of them are gone. Now. Let's just say it, you know,

Scott Benner 36:05
how did you end up meeting them originally?

Pam 36:08
Well, I went into one at a diabetic store. My little, the little girl I mentored in the program, she was 12. When I met her, she's 40 Now, but she lives in California. But um, you know, I'm, I know, I know what, you know, I know what's going on with her. And so I guess I don't know.

Scott Benner 36:32
Too many. Yeah, but he's, I was wondering without, like, the digital age, because you're, you're in a really interesting situation. I mean, you lived, like, right over top of the, of the line where the Internet came. And, and you're somehow involved in it now, like, you're, I mean, you're using a do it yourself algorithm to manage your diabetes, you're in my Facebook group, you know, you're you you meet with people, socially, you meet with people, like through your businesses and doing yoga and things like that you have a lot of interaction with people. And I just wondered how many of them would have diabetes? And I didn't, I didn't imagine many. But But are you saying that's the of the people you know, you've seen poor health outcomes for them? Well,

Pam 37:21
I have a cousin who started out on pills, you know, as a type two. And then And then his, his wasn't getting regulated. And so they put him on insulin. And he's doing better. I think the little girl that I sponsored, I was hoping that she would have no complications, like me, but she's had some heart stuff, you know, it's just, you can't make anyone do anything. And I never tried to push my eye, you know, push, make her feel like you talk about on your show shaming someone, you know, and I would, I would never do that to her. And but, you know, when children grow up with a parent that maybe doesn't feed them healthy food. They really don't want any healthy food, you know? So it's, I mean, that's not for everyone. But I mean, I noticed that sometimes that how you grow up and I was just lucky my mom lived to 101 and a half. She walked a lot. She ate healthy and you know, so I had a good role model. I was lucky.

Scott Benner 38:31
101

Pam 38:33
and a half.

Scott Benner 38:34
How did she pass? Did she?

Pam 38:36
She choked on something.

Scott Benner 38:38
I must curse Pam. Okay, but really, that's what got her. Hmm, that's crazy. Yeah. She was she was still going.

Pam 38:49
Yeah, it was so funny, though. Last year, so my husband would come over and visit we moved her out to California with with us. And I put her in a little residential home with like four other people. And my mother would look at me and she'd say, who said old man with you?

Scott Benner 39:08
Talking about your husband? Yeah. Well,

Pam 39:11
you know, she started not knowing anybody but me. Right? Because I spend a lot of time with her. So you know, her quality of life wasn't so great the last year or two so that's, you know, it was okay. But

Scott Benner 39:24
that's what good did your father how long did your father live?

Pam 39:29
At six and he had Alzheimer's, so I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And he didn't have exactly you know, he didn't my parents never drank really didn't drink but for smoke, but although my mom did maybe for a few years when I was young, but you know, I think genetics has something to do with

Scott Benner 39:52
I mean, obviously, yeah. What about other autoimmune issues? Do you have any others

Pam 39:58
well, From age 20, well, when I got diagnosed round 24 to age 40, I could not get rid of female fungal infections. I just couldn't they, you know, all the medicine didn't work, right. So when I went back to visit my parents now, you know, I'd had it for all those millions of years. And, you know, it's not fun to die of a chronic infection when you but affects your blood sugar. And I saw a really, I call him brilliant immunologist from India at one of the, you know, hospitals here. And he fixed it for a year with some medicine, but he said, You can't be on this forever. And he said, he was really a holistic person. He was looking at the whole person. He said, Pam, I think you're depressed. I said, Oh, no, no, no, not me. He said, here, I'm gonna give you an antidepressant. I said, No, that's okay. So I took it home. I swallowed it, I felt I felt I just fell asleep. And I just I flushed down the toilet. I thought, this is like crazy medicine for, and I'm not crazy. And anyway, to make a long story short, I did get depressed around the time I moved back to Kansas City, seriously depressed. And I was I got treatment. And in one month, my phagocytes that the immunologist found that were a 2%. They should be 100%. In one month on an antidepressant they were 100%. One month. He was right.

Scott Benner 41:41
What is that measure?

Pam 41:45
Well, phagocytes eat bacteria have something to do with eating bacteria? Your body?

Scott Benner 41:50
Yeah, I'm looking right now. The type of cell within the body. It's called.

Pam 41:53
It's called? pH. A. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:57
Absorbing bacteria and other small cells and particles.

Pam 42:01
Yeah, I mean, I really felt hesitant to even share that I'm on an antidepressant because I don't, I don't tell very many people, you know, except my close friends. I know all the people. You know, people think that you're, you're weak and fragile. And

Scott Benner 42:16
you don't realize generational concept, though, don't you think? Like maybe, maybe because of your age, you think of it that way. But I don't imagine that, that people would think of it that way any longer.

Pam 42:28
I hope not. Because chemical imbalance happens and you know, in our family that was prevalent, and so that's just but you know, it fix my immune system. And all those years, being a mess. And all of a sudden, I wanted to get married. You know, the counselor said to me, have you ever thought of getting married? And I said, Oh, that's a good idea. You think somebody would want to be with me? And he said, Sure. So that's when I met my husband. Yeah. Then we got married. And it is incredible. My My life was so much richer than being a singer. And a musician. I mean, you know, if I had to do it over, I would have had four or five kids. But, you know, kind of late for that.

Scott Benner 43:13
Right? You were later when you met him. I see. I understand now. Hey, yeah, we met. Yeah. You know, who wasn't interested. Jim Nabors?

Pam 43:21
Oh, I don't want to laugh. I'm sorry.

Scott Benner 43:24
I think you and I the only one that understand that statement. So yeah,

Pam 43:27
I know. Well, and I respect everybody. Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 43:31
No, of course. No, no, no, I'm just teasing. But I know. Yeah. But that's really interesting. So because I'm glad you shared that part. Because the story felt a little disjointed, because it didn't make sense to me that you got married at 43. And now it does.

Pam 43:48
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't afraid of getting close to someone, you know, all those years, I would pick unavailable men, and all of a sudden, I had an available man and, you know, really scared, but I could, I was able to handle it and embrace it and feel grateful. And it was just wonderful.

Scott Benner 44:07
That's excellent. So no, thyroid stuff for celiac or anything like that.

Pam 44:12
No, nothing. I have no no complications of you know, from diabeetus. And I'm good. I just nothing else.

Scott Benner 44:20
Wonderful. Any siblings? Yeah,

Pam 44:22
I do. I have a brother. He's eight years older.

Scott Benner 44:27
Does he have any issues?

Pam 44:30
Not No, no, no. diabeetus I think my father had some family members like a little boy that had diabeetus like a one of his nephews had diabetes. So that's what we think. It's that in the family in that way when

Scott Benner 44:47
your father Yeah, your brother has children. Uh huh. They're fine. Nothing there. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Wow. All right. Well, what made you want to come on and do this for 45 Min. Listen to this, I wanted to ask you why you want to come on the podcast?

Pam 45:02
Because I think it's important that people understand that taking good care of yourself is it's it makes life less complicated. You know, it's enough complications just being diagnosed. And then I wanted to make things a little easier for myself. And for me, that made it easier. I respect that not everybody wants to do that. But and I also think being a mentor for a young child is a good thing. And I wish more hospitals have that program. I don't think, you know, I mean, there's one, my endocrinologist has one patient that has is looping. Can you imagine that in Kansas City? One patient?

Scott Benner 45:50
Yeah. I don't want to out somebody, but I think there's a person on the show. I think they're pretty open about that person that's been on the show before? Who, who lives probably very close to you, who's who's who's been very involved with looping in the past. So okay, yeah, no, I know what you're saying, though. It's all these people. You know, the way I always think about it is through the podcasts or the context of the podcast, because, you know, I get enough feedback from listeners, that I am comfortable saying the podcast helps people. And yeah, and yet, I know what my reach is. And while it's, it's, it's really great, it's nowhere near the number of people who could benefit from the information. And so you, you only are ever reaching a small number. So to hear that there's only one other person in your, you know, hospital setting that's even aware of this. I mean, I'm hoping that changes, I'm hoping the the algorithms that are available now from tandem and on the pods and things like that I'm hoping they become more prevalent with people because even without a firm understanding of diabetes, they might achieve much better stability and a one.

Pam 47:04
Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, it really does help tremendously.

Scott Benner 47:09
Do you ever think about, I don't want to be a bummer. But do you ever think about what might happen if you become incapable of thinking about your diabetes the way you are now?

Pam 47:20
Yeah, scares me to death. I mean, I've thought of that. And I thought, oh, my god, how am I going to just you know, my settings? You know, nobody's going to know how to do that. So yeah, unless I remarry, and somebody's smart as my husband was.

Scott Benner 47:37
But are you trolling for 75 year old guys that understand how to use their computer that was going on?

Pam 47:43
60? About six years? Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 47:46
You want to get more of a boy situation?

Pam 47:49
Well, no, you know, I just feel that I don't, the people that I meet that are my age, I don't think I think I need somebody with a little more. You know, I don't know.

Scott Benner 47:59
Yeah, I Yeah, you don't you don't in any way, come off your age. That's for certain, you know, like talking to you, or even like, you know, I can see you online or like looking at photos of you or anything like that. Like, it's you don't feel I mean, that you're 72 was surprising to me.

Pam 48:18
Thanks. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:20
that's no, I mean, it's a big deal like it is because it's not just about dumb luck, right? I mean, sure, genetics are helpful. But you've also put a, you know, you've put a plan in place for eating, and it's working well, for you. You're on top of your diabetes and in a major way. You know, these things are, you know, you're not, I wouldn't imagine you're having these successes by mistake. It seems like you're you're meaningfully trying to accomplish them. And while that doesn't always work for everybody, you're seeing the fruits of your labor here, I think.

Pam 48:53
Yeah, I think exercising every morning for 30 minutes on the treadmill helps tremendously. My Basal rate was so much, so much higher. Before I did that every morning. In order I'll listen to the news or watch TV or something, just some stupid show that, you know, so I don't realize I'm really on the treadmill, but I think that's a made my Basal rates really low.

Scott Benner 49:18
I would imagine I agree to and you do you do it every day, seven days a week? Yep. Yeah, it's the consistency too. Because the truth is, is that the exercise is creating a variable for you. That variable is allowing you to probably use less insulin.

Pam 49:34
That's right. Yeah, that's right. I see. I seen that

Scott Benner 49:38
percent. It's 100%. Right. Did you figure that out on your own? Or did you kind of fall in your mom's footsteps to the walking?

Pam 49:45
Well, I figured it out because I was you know, I used to treadmill maybe several times a week but then I started noticing, especially with the loop in the the Dexcom that I My blood sugar's were really, really good when I started doing it every day, and I thought, boy, that's good. I mean, with a loop, you know, if there's a day where I just think I don't really want to get on, I'll create that temporary override for a few hours, you know, and then maybe I'll ride later in the day, you know, and then I walked my dogs every night for about a half hour to so I mean, and teaching yoga and sure, standing on my head for five minutes in the morning, you know,

Scott Benner 50:29
you're very active. Like, yeah, I'm here. Not for your age, by the way. You're just you're very active.

Pam 50:36
And yeah, nothing, nothing hurts. Luckily, you know, right. So

Scott Benner 50:40
no, I take your point there, because there are plenty of people who might like to be active and are having trouble. They can't Yeah, reasons that are, are not their fault. Wow, that's something so would you I mean, you talked about a five a one C now, was it always that low? Like

Pam 50:56
three? No, no, no, it got better. When I started looping. It was, you know, middle, I think years ago, upper fives, and then they got to the middle fives, and then maybe 5.2 or 5.3. And then after this loop, you know, it just kept getting better and better.

Scott Benner 51:18
Does anyone follow your Dexcom? Like you live alone, right?

Pam 51:23
Yeah. No, somebody should though, because that'd be nice. You know?

Scott Benner 51:28
Yeah. Do you I don't want anything could

Pam 51:32
I don't know who would do that. I mean, my my brother's really busy with flying in and out of town visiting his kids and my sister in law, they are busy. They go overseas, they go on trips, or they're not here that much. So I don't know who and I have some girlfriends, but I would not ask to put them under that kind of stress.

Scott Benner 51:56
I just I mean, I'm I'm just thinking about like, you go to bed every night by yourself. So yeah, you know, it's

Pam 52:04
but my Dexcom setting is on attentive. Have you ever heard that noise? The attentive one,

Scott Benner 52:10
does it go in like that?

Pam 52:12
No, it does. Doo doo doo doo doo doo. Oh, god, it's a killer.

Scott Benner 52:18
So that wakes you up?

Pam 52:20
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But you know, usually is by pretty much no, when I go to bed, I can look on the forecast of my loop. And it's showing that you probably aren't going to have any Lows tonight. You know? Or if it says you are because maybe I took a virtual yoga class on top everything else. It sucks. See 545 Just like an hour and a half. So I will eat something more before I go to bed. You know. So the loop has that advantage where you can actually see your forecast.

Scott Benner 52:58
Yeah, no, I know. It's a it's a big help.

Pam 53:01
It's huge. Yeah, it really is.

Scott Benner 53:07
I don't know what else to ask you. There's so much like you, it feels like you've done a lot and the time has been kind to you. And and I don't know, it's a is there something you'd want people to know that? That I'm not getting from you. I'm so worried. I'm not asking you the right questions, I guess is my is my concern.

Pam 53:32
I don't know. And see. I was just looking at some notes that I made. But I think I've already talked about all the things that I put notes for?

Scott Benner 53:50
Well, well then let me ask you this at your, you know, at your age, how do you find a podcast?

Pam 53:58
There was a Dexcom group on Facebook, I think I'm pretty sure that's where I was. And I said I had diabetes for 50 years, I have no complications. Well, I don't remember if it was like 1000 people or 700 people, but I mean, so many people wrote, how in the world have you done this? And I said I said I told them kind of in a brief few sentences. And one of them said you should you should be on the juicebox show. Really? And that's that's that's, that's that's how I found you. Yeah.

Scott Benner 54:31
Do you listen to it?

Pam 54:34
To the juicebox Yeah, well, now I do. Yeah. Okay. I love it.

Scott Benner 54:40
I'm glad. That's excellent. And do you think that do you believe that because you're very you've been very careful through this entire like time we've been talking so far right? You're not giving anybody advice and you're very careful to say this might work for me and not for other people. Like you know, I don't I don't want to say what I do because it might not be right for some What else? But I mean, if you had to encapsulate where your success is coming from, you think it's, it's a mixture genetics, your diet activity like, Well, how do you think of it?

Pam 55:13
No, it isn't. Because when I was in California, I was in my 20s. My doctor wanted to put me on cholesterol medicine because my cholesterol was like, you know, 200 and something. And I said, No, I'm going to just eat more carefully, you know, and that's when I changed. And then right now my cholesterol is 150. And the good and bad are excellent. So maybe genetically if I ate bad I get maybe you know it, wouldn't I plus? Yeah, but I think I think it's exercise. I really do. I think it's the diet. Eating lean protein. You know, I don't eat hamburgers. Meat doesn't read meat doesn't appeal to me. I like chicken and fish and tofu, believe it or not, and

Scott Benner 56:05
and being attentive to your mental well being to say that being attentive to your mental well being was a big boost for you as well.

Pam 56:14
Yeah. Oh, boy. Was it? Yeah. Because you make better decisions when your mind is, you know, in a healthy place.

Scott Benner 56:24
Well, that's really, it's really interesting. Can I ask? Do you date?

Pam 56:30
I'm just starting to Yeah.

Scott Benner 56:32
How long has your husband been gone? I'm sorry,

Pam 56:34
I a year and a half year and a half.

Scott Benner 56:37
Are you getting lonely?

Pam 56:39
Oh, God. I mean, with COVID. You know, all this hit with I thought we thought he had 30 or 40 years he was healthy. And it was genetics. He inherited his father's pancreatic cancer. He did my husband didn't even drink hardly ever. And ate like I did exercise so that we thought his neuro endocrine cancer, they grow slow, and people live with it. 30 or 40 years. But anyway, they told us that the doctor said you've got two weeks to two months. He fell over in the room. They took him to the hospital and he died five days later. I'm sorry. So yeah, so I mean, I loved him so much. He was communicative. He was sensitive. He was he was i He was brilliant. He graduated from CU with two degrees and the top of this, you know, 1% of his class. Somethings. Whom latte you know. So anyway, but I've been in some meetup groups. And because online dating was horrible, scary, and a lot of scammers and, but I, you know, starting to meet some interesting people. So I think I just I've pushed myself out the door to when I don't feel like it to do something. You know, I'm in an improv class. I take art classes. I just tried to do things to meet to meet people. Yeah, make because I moved back and most of my friends moved away. So I met a when I'm in a widow's group, and it's fabulous. I met. I have friends I've making there. So yeah, I mean, I'm really doing better now. I'm glad we didn't talk six months ago, or, you know, a year ago.

Scott Benner 58:32
Questions if that's okay, around this. Sure. First of all, lighthearted. Our boys still boys no matter their age.

Pam 58:41
I don't know. I just I've never I've never been romantically involved since my husband died. So I don't really know.

Scott Benner 58:47
I'm saying, like, as you're meeting people? Do we? I'm trying to figure out if I'm ever going to completely mature. Are they still knuckleheads, even when they're 60 and 65? Or are they still get to your boobs? Like, where does that go?

Pam 59:02
No, I don't think so. You know, I mean, I've tried to find an evolved person, kind of like my husband, you know, that has that creativity and analytic. Someone who's analytical and creative is good because I, I played piano, but I need more analytical. So you know, that balance is good. And, you know, if you meet a man who believes in feminism and respects women, then, you know, I don't think they would do anything inappropriate, really, because they know that you have to start Yeah, you have to start out as friends. And

Scott Benner 59:42
I just yeah, I'm excited to hear that it's possible I'll be completely mature one day. So that's exciting for me, seriously. And so so when your husband passes is is it? Is it difficult to take care of yourself after that, like where do you I like yeah, you know, I'm saying like, what's the process of finding life again?

Pam 1:00:04
No brother with COVID You know, I couldn't even get out because no way that I knew was really getting out and I lost my appetite. I had to eat. It was like, it was like eating force feeding yourself every meal. Nothing tasted good. I ate cauliflower pizza, probably 80% of the time, because that's the only thing that tasted good to me. And of course, it's, you know, I know I know what the saturated I don't eat much saturated fat. So. But yeah, it's just been it was, honestly, it's been it was a nightmare. And I'm glad to be feeling better. But you know, I still, I still cry. And we I have two dogs. One dog when he died wouldn't come to bed for three months. Oh, yeah, they always sleep in bed with us. He would sit by the front door, wait for my husband. So but the other dog didn't even know. I mean, she was oblivious. So you know, they're great. I mean, they they have supported me. They are i i love them. I kiss them 100 times a day. And I read the other day that pumps up your endorphins. So I don't do it for that reason I do it because I love them so much.

Scott Benner 1:01:28
But that's it's, it's, it's nice to have something somebody you know, to.

Pam 1:01:33
I can't. Yeah, I can't imagine coming home to nothing, you know, but it's been really lonely. And I missed the friendship. The most, you know, the my husband, I could talk every night forever. And you know about anything, everything. And we never got, we never get sick of each other. It was like, we knew what we knew what it was like to be with other people. And we knew the difference, and we were grateful. So you know, but I do believe that I I know. It's not easy. But I think eventually I'll find somebody like that.

Scott Benner 1:02:11
It's it's I'm always fascinated when I talk to people who have lived a longer life. And how when you you examine it and look backwards at it, that you've had not just a long life, but sometimes it feels like almost multiple existences within the timeframe that you've been alive. Like, you know, there's the talk, you know, I mean, there's a time where you're a student and a child, then you're in LA, and then you're, you're married. And it's just, it's almost like you've lived three distinct scenario. That's

Pam 1:02:44
true. No, that's true. Yeah. And you don't realize it, because I've always been very independent. But it's almost feels like a half of you, you know, is gone. And you have to claim yourself. And, you know, not that I ever, you know, was a needy person with my husband or any event, I was still independent, but just you know, it's like finding your identity again, with without having your best friend with you.

Scott Benner 1:03:14
Sure. No, that makes complete sense. But I'm very sorry for your loss. That's for certain. And it sounds like he was terrific. And yeah, you know what you're looking for. So hopefully, somebody in that areas is going to pop up at a at an art class or a yoga class.

Pam 1:03:32
Well, I have to tell anyone that's listening. I know, when I told my husband when we were dating that I had diabeetus. He said it took him like a little bit back about I don't know what the word is, you know, it kind of like woof, yeah. And then he said, he realized I was 43 I'd had it since I was 22. I didn't have any complications. And he saw how I ate and how I took care and how I exercise. So he was okay with it. He wasn't scared anymore. And he was so supportive of the way that I you know, he apes very similar to the way I ate not, you know, not exactly but healthy. And so, there are men out there that won't, you won't blow them away. Yeah, if they really are evolved kind of guy. I

Scott Benner 1:04:25
try to tell people that all the time when we're talking about the subject that the right person won't be scared. Right, you know, and you don't want to you don't want to force a situation where somebody really is looking at you as if you have an expiration date on you or something like that.

Pam 1:04:43
Well, yeah, that's I mean, that's exactly it. I mean, I went out from, you know, online dating a few times and it was kind of like, most of the men wanted women way younger that you know, they're they're my age so that they kind of be around to take care of them. That's what's one of them told with me, and, and then you know, any flaw, like having diabetes, some men is a flaw, and they want a perfect woman, and I'm not perfect, and you know, so. But I'm okay with myself. And so you know, you just have to find the right person that looks at you as a whole person, instead of that your diabeetus is going to ruin their, you know, their lives, or you're going to drop dead. You know, a lot of men, I understand them being worried if somebody doesn't take care of themselves. But

Scott Benner 1:05:34
yeah, but yeah, it's funny too, because I can I take the perspective of, you know, if we're going to meet and be together, I'm worried about you needing something and I'm worried about me needing something, I actually had a conversation with a person, I'm gonna see if I can find a way to talk about this. Pretty recently, and they're, you know, my age. And one of the spouses in this very long time marriage was people have been married forever, you know, one of the spouses is starting to have different medical issues, and they're not really like huge things, but they're time consuming things. And the other spouse said to me, I'm getting, I'm getting tired of them being sick. And I, it shocked me because I, gosh, if they've been married 30 years, probably, and, you know, together since they were kids almost. And, and that idea of like, it's not, it's not the person, it's not the spouse that's bothering them. It's almost not even the medical situations that are bothering them. It was that it's taking up so much time and time started feeling finite to the person I was talking to. And you know, if you have an injury or something happens, and by the time you get it fixed, you're taking care of it six months later, and every day you're worried. And the person was like, I want to do things, I want to go somewhere I want to, like, you know, blah, blah, blah, like I have things I want to do. I I was I think I was equally shocked that they set it as I was understanding of what they meant. Yeah, you know,

Pam 1:07:15
well, that's pretty heavy. I mean, I mean, I felt with my husband, it was an honor to take care of him. I mean, I was really wasn't taking care of him. Because, you know, he wasn't. Yeah, I mean, but me, you know, towards the end. Yeah, but a little more, but I, you know, I understand that I just, I'm just, I just like being with with him. And that was more important to me than going to, you know, Tahiti, or you know, Caribbean or, you know, so

Scott Benner 1:07:49
I don't know, I wouldn't be I think I fall on your side of this too. But I have to be honest, it made me think, Oh, my wife's gonna bail on me if I guess.

Pam 1:07:58
Well, yeah, I hope no, I hope not. I think you know, yeah, I mean, I hope not. I mean, look, you've gone through all this with your daughter. And, you know, that's been a lot of work, right?

Scott Benner 1:08:10
Yeah. No, I know. You saying I deserve a little compassion if something goes wrong with me. Yeah,

Pam 1:08:15
I think so. Well, we all need to give ourselves compassion. This is what I'm learning from his deaf that I need to be compassionate. If I just didn't do something that today it's like, it's okay. Pam, you took care of your diabeetus you took care of the dogs, you gave one of them their meds? And that's all you have to do. You know,

Scott Benner 1:08:35
I am I'm of the camp to him that everyday doesn't need to be a Lollapalooza situation. You know,

Pam 1:08:42
it can't be It can't be perfect, you know. So, I think I felt like it was more like that. It's so interesting. I mean, I think before he died, I felt like, you know, every day was so exciting. But, you know, once I lived alone had been living alone. It's been a whole different story. But pushing yourself to be out with people has helped tremendously. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
That's what I'm taking away from what you're saying is that is that being around other people is a saving grace for you?

Pam 1:09:15
It is just isolating, even though that's what I want to do, I have to not do that. It's horrible. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:24
Do you? Do you sometimes just, do you ever think well, it's over? I did all the things I'm going to do. Does it ever get to you that way?

Pam 1:09:32
Yeah. I mean, for a long time, I've thought I'm, I'm never going to, you know, be be with anyone again. And you know, I think I know a lot of people who've had bad marriages and when their spouse has died, they don't want to get married again. But people I've in my widows group have told me you know, if you had a good marriage usually do want to meet someone.

Scott Benner 1:09:56
That's your expectation. Hey, yeah,

Pam 1:09:58
but I don't Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:00
Oh, how? How valuable do you find your memories at this point?

Pam 1:10:07
I that's pretty good. You know, sometimes it's not good. I'll think I want to do this, this and this. And I'll forget, like, I saw something on Facebook where this woman said, I won't write it down because I'll remember and then she goes, haha or something. So once when I write things down, you know, because so it really helps. And

Scott Benner 1:10:27
so as your memory tails away as you get older, do ya? Do you have trouble recount like recalling your life? Like, especially since your husband's gone? I'm wondering like, is it helpful to you to think about things that you enjoyed or moments? And are those are those easy to come by? Or harder to come by?

Pam 1:10:48
Yeah, I'm not there yet. I can't. I don't honestly don't even enjoy looking at photos. I can't listen to some voicemails that are still on my phone from him. But I know that one day, I will be able to look at all the beautiful things live that we spent and you know, not be sad. Afraid. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:11
So at the moment, it's painful to experience.

Pam 1:11:15
Yeah, it's hard. You know, everybody says that the first thing they say is, oh, think of the good memories. You know, when you tell them you died? Well just think of all the great times. It's like, well, you, you think of all the great times because that's making me feel like I'm going to throw up right?

Scott Benner 1:11:31
Yeah, yeah. That is what I wanted to understand. So the the memories are, are not as for you, they're not as valuable obviously as as a real situation would be. And at the moment, you're not finding them comforting.

Pam 1:11:45
No, I'm getting much better. You know, it's gotten Yeah, it's gotten much better lately. So you know, it'll, it'll just keep getting better. I think it just time.

Scott Benner 1:11:58
No, I appreciate you sharing all this with me. I really do. Thanks. Yeah, no, it's uh, it's been very, it's been enlightening. You know, it's, it's, this is a week where I talked with you. And earlier in the week, I spoke with a 22 year old girl who was diagnosed while she was in college. And to hear her talk about her life, she only has the perspective not that this is a bad thing. But because of her age. And her situation, her her almost her entire perspective. As of now. It's of what she's doing right now, what happened in the recent past, what she hopes to happen in the very near future, she doesn't have the ability, as, as most people her age wouldn't, to wander ahead by decades. And she has no perspective because she was a child, you know, just prior to this happening. And then to hear you be able to reach back to a time when you were 20 or 30, or 40 or 50 or 60 When you were with this person or lived here live their experience something even to hear that you had an infection that lasted I mean, I'm spitballing here the numbers but some some 15 years, like I tried to put myself in that perspective of living with it for 15 years. And at the same time, it's something that you have not lived with for 32 years. It's right. Yeah, it's really so good. Pal, I'm sorry, I think I cut you off.

Pam 1:13:31
Yeah. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:13:32
I'm sorry. You were gone for a second. I lost the signal.

Pam 1:13:36
Yeah, well, my little sister, you know, I just joined Big Brother, Big sister and I have a little sister and boy has that helped who? Oh, I just love this little girl. She's nine years old. And when I met her she was a and so yeah.

Scott Benner 1:13:53
Ya know, I can imagine that would be valuable. Just to be able to, it's not as much right about directing people as it is. I mean, just kind of leading them more than telling them I imagine like just being there for an example is probably such a big deal. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, Pam, if you don't have anything else, I'm I feel good about this. But I want to make sure that we've covered everything. I think so. Yeah, you're probably like how the hell I didn't think we're gonna talk this long.

Pam 1:14:23
Well, I hope I didn't share too much. You know, I mean, so

Scott Benner 1:14:26
for me or for you. I thought you well.

Pam 1:14:29
Yeah, I just hope your listeners are okay with hearing all the gory details and all the I did good stuff. So

Scott Benner 1:14:37
Pam as as hard as this might be to believe because this is your now and you're living through it right now. I thought you told a beautiful story.

Pam 1:14:45
No, thank you.

Scott Benner 1:14:57
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