#621 One Happy Camper

January 31, 2022Scott Benner

Kelsey is an adult type 1 who loves diabetes camp.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 621 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, you have the great pleasure of listening to me speak with Kelsey. She's an adult who's been living with type one diabetes for quite some time, and she has a passion for helping people with type one. When this was recorded, Kelsey was the Community Relations Coordinator for the Chris Dudley Foundation. She since has moved on to be the Director of Operations at Gales Creek camp foundation. Kelsey likes helping people with type one diabetes, and she loves diabetes camp. I think she might even like, now you'll find out. I'm not gonna spoil it all here. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you're a United States resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please do me a favor and go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. And join the T one D exchange registry. Taking the survey only lasts a few minutes. You can do it from your phone. It's super simple to do. Hold on, I got away from music. Wow. It's completely HIPAA compliant. 1,000,000% Anonymous, and it's going to help people living with type one diabetes and benefit the Juicebox Podcast. I would really appreciate it if you went to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and filled out that survey today. Thank you very much. Just one more thing. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox.

Podcast a Mac. Yes, you go to the Apple in the top left corner of the screen. Uh huh. Go to System Preferences. Sound. bottom middle.

Kelsey Duman 2:25
Bar bottom, it'll show up. There it is.

Scott Benner 2:28
Then the sound effects tab. midway down, it says play sound effect through and there's alert volume slider slide all the way to the left. Okay, don't close that. Because after you're done, you're gonna want to remember to slide it back to where it was and close your system preferences. So you will hear the next time you get an email, but we're not going to hear it again for the next hour.

Kelsey Duman 2:50
Okay, it says there's one chapter that says play user interface sound effects? Yep. Does that still be checked? Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:57
it's just the slider, you're just basically turning the volume down. And then you won't get those notifications. I mean, you'll still get them you just won't be able to hear them. Okay, you slide it back when you're finished and and quit the preferences near right back restarted. Awesome. Okay. I'm just afraid if you close the Preferences now that offer hours now you have 300 emails in here. But that's perfect. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So when you're ready, and I know you're probably not nervous, or you know, you should be that we've talked before. Yeah, well, that was what I was thinking too. But just introduce yourself and we'll start off.

Kelsey Duman 3:40
Awesome. Well, my name is Kelsey Duman and I have had type one for gosh, 22 years now. And I work with diabetes camps, and kids and teens and families with type one. And I am a big fan of the Juicebox Podcast. So I'm excited to be here today.

Scott Benner 4:01
Well, then I feel badly starting off with in a way that could be taken as creepy. But if you've had diabetes for 22 years, and I'm looking at this photo of you, are you 24. Like what's going

Kelsey Duman 4:09
well, thank you. I appreciate that. I'm actually 29 No, please. So I was diagnosed when I was seven,

Scott Benner 4:16
seven. Gotcha. Okay, so you said a second ago, which I'll just leave in so people have contacted you're not nervous because we've spoken to each other before? Yes. So what came first? The Chris Dudley or the egg? Did you book him? Before yourself? Yes. Before him.

Kelsey Duman 4:40
I booked him. Well, I it was kind of at the same time actually. I had reached out to Scott to see about being on the podcast and if it was something that you know if there was some little nuggets of info that the listeners would be interested to hear from me and one thing led to another and I brought up the podcast, Chris He was excited to join as well. So

Scott Benner 5:01
okay, so Chris's episode is all edited, and it's in the queue. Yay. It'll be up very soon. Maybe next week. Awesome. Nice. And then somebody will hear this six months from now and go back and look for it. Like, it's the second like, it just happened. But right. Back in June, you just did something that captured my imagination. You said I reached out to Scott, do I feel different to you talking to you, then the entity that you believe you're emailing? Or is that just a misstep of words? Hmm.

Kelsey Duman 5:34
I don't know. That's a good question.

Scott Benner 5:35
That's a cool maybe are multiple people to multiple people. Maybe you guys.

Kelsey Duman 5:40
I mean, it's so funny with podcasts being such you know, a phenomena right now. You you imagine someone when you hear their voice, right? And then you get to talk to them more in person, or we had talked over zoom and you're like, oh, wow, there's like a person behind the voice.

Scott Benner 5:55
I don't seem that much different. Like when I'm not being recorded, right? No, not at all. I mean, I don't think I am but when this had been an odd time to be few been like, Yo, no absolute you're kind of a prick. And I didn't even know who I am. Truth hurts, right? Oh, no, I'm gonna have to take that in. Well, okay, so you diagnosed when you were seven? You said? Yes. That's pretty young. Any in the family? diabetes wise?

Kelsey Duman 6:25
No, I actually, it's crazy. My entire life. I've been told, you know, there was no family history, yada, yada. And then just like a year ago, my dad was like, Well, I think maybe my leg Great Aunt once removed hat. It was like, what? Where's this coming from?

Scott Benner 6:43
Who's a great, I don't even know how to track that.

Kelsey Duman 6:46
I know. Me neither. I was like, does that truly count as like genetic connection? So make the baby I guess is the answer. But not that not that I really know of.

Scott Benner 6:59
So basically, like his sad third cousin who couldn't get a date one Thanksgiving that he meant. He right. Yeah, the 70s.

Kelsey Duman 7:06
Exactly. Exactly. Well, but yeah, I have two brothers. And they both don't have it. Neither my parents. So

Scott Benner 7:14
I just thought of a question I don't think I've ever asked before. So what does it feel like to? Does that feel separating? That you're the only one?

Kelsey Duman 7:25
Oh, um, you know, not for me personally. And my dad and my mom, both were super involved in different ways. Growing up with type one, and I think it almost made it more of a family affair, if you will. And so it didn't, it didn't feel separating from my family. My mom was really hands on with the management part of things. I mean, she had like carb counts memorized on every single thing. And then my dad was super good about working with me on advocacy stuff. We went to the JDRF children's Congress when I was 11. And got to go talk to our nation's leaders about funding diabetes research. And so he was really formative in kind of how I've accepted having type one. So I think they really need it more of a positive and something that they saw as just something that helps shape our family. And so it never felt like I was just out on my own island.

Scott Benner 8:33
Empowering,

Kelsey Duman 8:34
even Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 8:37
What what did management look like 23 years ago? When did you start regular mph?

Kelsey Duman 8:44
I did start regular mph. quickly changed though. I got on a pump when I was 10. So by the time I really can recall management. I was on a pump. I do remember the one time my mom mixed up my regular and NPH. And we were just like, what do we do? You know, you get you can't mix him up. She like did the wrong dose of one. And I think I remember that because there was so much panic in that moment. But yeah, by the time I could really remember and by the time I really took some ownership of it, I had the old school animist pump that was like the size of a brick. And obviously no CGM. It was all testing. I always think back of my least favorite part of growing up with diabetes was the log book. And you had to write down your blood sugar every time you tested and record your exercise and oh my gosh, killed me.

Scott Benner 9:52
I think the podcast exists partially because I didn't want to do stuff like that. And I thought I could really figure it out. I wouldn't have to write anything down and anybody about it ever again? We made this ownership of diabetes. When did that transition begin for you? Do you recall?

Kelsey Duman 10:08
Yeah, um, you know, I always I talk with parents about this a lot at camp sessions, because that's a huge question, right? Like, when do you let your kid take some ownership? How do you do that? What if they don't want to. And I feel like for me, it was kind of a slow burn, if you will. I think once I was on a pump, it, it my mom was really good about giving me those little nuggets of ownership. Even as far as like, Okay, here's what your carbs are, here's how much insulin you should take, you put it in the pump, I'll double check it just in case because you're 10. But you put it in the pump, and you press the go button. And so just those little bits of building blocks. I would say high school was definitely when I started to take more of a lead role in my management. And my I always think back my parents, you know, when you're, you know, having a daughter with type one when you're in middle school, and you're getting invited to sleepovers, and the parents are like, Okay, well, how do we manage this, especially back then when there was no Dexcom share? There, I didn't have a cell phone type of thing. And so their rule was you can go to whatever sleepover you want, when you can prove that you can wake up in the middle of the night and test your blood sugar to make sure you're still good to go. They put it on you. Yeah, yeah. And it was, I mean, I felt like that was fair. Because if you know, that's what I needed to do to be responsible enough to take this next step of going away on sleepovers. And it took me a little while to wake up and not just turn off the alarm and roll over, but to actually wake up and test and yell down the hall that I was 150 You know, that's so

Scott Benner 12:00
that's lightful and important to talk about, actually, that you can't just make an ask of a kid and expect that, you know, by next Thursday, it's all going to be buttoned up and going the way you want it to like it could take weeks or months of you turning off that alarm and being like I can't do this and until until you find your your rhythm within a little bit.

Kelsey Duman 12:19
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And there was they had good compromises, you know, it wasn't like oh, you can't go hang out with your friends because you can't do this because you have diabetes.

Scott Benner 12:37
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I don't do this often. But I saw post on my Facebook page the other day. By the way, Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, private Facebook group 20,000 members go join. There was a post about the T one day exchange it said if you're not on the T one day exchange, you like making some extra money every now and then. And you love contributing to type one diabetes research. Go join. This person says I've done three studies in the last six months currently being paid to upload a couple of pictures every day and take a survey for 16 days. Easy peasy. And it's for the greater good of T one D tech. I'm sure Scott has a direct link so you can benefit the podcast as well. Well, she's 100%, right I do T one D exchange.org forward slash juicebox. When I tell you about the T one D exchange, I never bring this part up because it doesn't come to fruition for everyone. But it is a sincere possibility that the T one D exchange may offer you other opportunities after you take the survey. So you have to be a type one who's from the United States or the caregiver of a type one in the United States. You have to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox fill out the survey takes less than 10 minutes. It's HIPAA compliant and anonymous. And then you're in they'll follow up with more stuff if there's opportunities available and if not, you've done a great thing you're helping people with type one you're helping the show. So I'm just taking the survey is a big help. But there may be more. Anyway, I don't usually talk about it like that because I just want you guys to do it because you want to do it but you see people are excited about there's a lot of comments in this thing about other people who have done it? And I just thought maybe I should tell you t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Go fill out the survey.

Yeah, they didn't lock you in a dungeon if you couldn't do it, right, right,

Kelsey Duman 15:17
right. Like I could go spend the night at my cousin's house because they my aunt was trained and everything. But it just seemed like it made sense. Even, you know, 1213 that, if I wanted to go off on my own, I had to learn to do this stuff on my own. So I wake

Scott Benner 15:31
up every night to test your blood sugar.

Kelsey Duman 15:36
So my parents in the beginning woke up, I think almost every night at 12. And three, yeah, they then you know, they kind of found their own rhythm. I think because I started waking up. So early to test myself. In the middle of the night, it became almost this like, habit. And I actually when I was like, 17, or 18, my endocrinologist sat me down and was like, you can sleep through the night, it's gonna be okay. But it almost became this anxiety of like, well, I have to wake up at 12 and test and see what I am. And my I had an amazing endocrinologist growing up, and she she was like, almost giving me permission to you know, as long as you're at a good range, before you go to sleep, you got to trust your body.

Scott Benner 16:23
To describe that a little bit. If you if you were to get up every night at midnight and test and always have a good number, like, you know, good meaning you felt comfortable about it. Right? What would stop you the next night from not getting up? Is it just like, This is gonna be the day?

Kelsey Duman 16:40
Yeah, you know, honestly, I think I really needed that almost permission from my doctor. Because my mom had said, you know, you're not getting enough sleep, you're, you're also a teenager, right? Like, so it's like, you know, your body's growing, you have to get more sleep than you have been getting. And it was, I mean, it was really tough, honestly, to let myself trust my body and trust the Basal rates that we've, you know, looked over and over. So,

Scott Benner 17:12
yeah, I agree. I just I was wondering how it struck you. So how do you? I mean, we kind of glossed over it a little bit. So do you work at a lot of different camps? Or do you work specifically for the Chris Dudley foundation.

Kelsey Duman 17:25
So right now my full time job is with the christeli Foundation. But I love being involved with as many diabetes camps as possible. I actually got my undergrad degree in psychology and camp management. So it was super fun to be able to apply some of my education to it. And then right now, I'm getting my master's in nonprofit management, which, as any camp lover would know, many of them are nonprofits. But I work really, really closely with another diabetes camp here in Oregon called Gales Creek camp. And they host nine camp sessions all throughout the summer. And then I've worked closely with riding on insulin, which is a ski and snowboard camp for kids with type one. And then I work a lot with the diabetes camping and Education Association, which is kind of the hub of all the diabetes camps.

Scott Benner 18:22
So what's the, in your, in your mind? What's the goal of diabetes camp? For the attendee,

Kelsey Duman 18:30
for the attendee, the goal of diabetes camp is, and this is broadly speaking, right? Because a lot of them focus on different aspects, but giving kids the tools and the self confidence to not only live well with type one, but really embrace type one and, and use the skills that brings into your life to take them further and other aspects of their life.

Scott Benner 18:58
Okay. I have to just take a detour for a second I love your generation because you have I think three times in the first 16 minutes that we've spoken made sure not to generalize your answer you'll say well in my you know experience or for me or in this set, it's very you guys don't generalize like older people are just like if you asked me a question, I will answer it answer it empirically as if the answer in the whole world and I know that's not like particularly right and I do try I think I'm doing a better job of not answering that way and talking like that as I get older but you guys are so aware of it. Like that's it's nice. I don't know another way to put it really I just but I hear it every time like it hits Oh, interesting a little tap on the back of my head like oh, she was really careful they're not to generalize any well and I

Kelsey Duman 19:49
think I'm sure you've noticed this, you know, talking to all of these different people with type one who are who work in type one. Like it everyone's journey is so different with type one, you know, you can just realize in the sense of we all wear a pump or we all take insulin, but I mean, everybody has their own experiences and their own outlook on life with type one.

Scott Benner 20:09
No, no, absolutely. I don't think you're wrong in the least. But I think you're 1,000,000%. Right. I'm just so aware of it when it happens, which makes me think back to when I was younger, we must have just blurted out the first thing that occurred to us. That was the new role. Right? Yeah. I don't know. That's interesting. So So okay, so you come to camp, basically. Is there any way in your mind that this podcast is virtual camp?

Kelsey Duman 20:37
Oh, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's so cool growing up. So I started going to camps, diabetes camps, right after I got diagnosed. Gales Creek camp who I work closely with, do a family camp. And so I was diagnosed in May, when I turned seven. And that July, my family and I were at family camp. And so like, I have just grown up through the system, if you will. But as I've gotten older recently, you know, the diabetes online community has just taken off. And it's so cool to see aspects within podcasts or Facebook groups of that diabetes community that when I was younger, it felt like camp was the only place to find that now in these new formats of support.

Scott Benner 21:23
Yeah, I think that all the time. I don't, I don't ever say it out loud, I guess that I don't see the difference between all those things just listed, get Facebook, right, listen to this, go into camp, it's the idea of first seeing that there are other people have diabetes. And there they are right in front of you. They're not weird. Like, you're not the only handsome person with type one. And everybody else is just you know, hunched over and a ball, you know, that I don't I don't mean like that feeling that even you could maybe even feel like, well, those other people are sick, but I'm not. Right. And then you see other just completely normal people walking out and you and you see yourself in them. And that's comforting. And inclusive, it makes you feel it makes you feel like surrounded in a good way. And then you hear people's ideas. Now I've had people come on here and tell me that some of the I had somebody on recently talking about a, an eating disorder. And I don't think the episodes up yet, but the person said that all of the you know, I'm making air quotes, best eating disorder tips came from camp, because that's where that's where they learned how to manipulate their insulin, and everything from other people who were already doing it in a time where it's just years ago, not that it couldn't happen, right today, but But years ago, when it was harder to like, track your data, even, like they taught her how to like, like, you know, cheat and or log books or test tests, when they knew, you know, they were, they were to certain number or use urine strips, but put one or put water on them. And they would come back just reading like normal, like, right, that kind of stuff. And so, in my mind, as I'm being told that story, I think it would be easy for people to listen that and think well, so you can sped. But I just think that in every walk of life, you have the opportunity to take the good or the bad from something, there's always going to be a mixture, right, it's up to you what you're going to take from it. So while that person's recollection was that camp taught me how to do things I wasn't supposed to do. I don't really believe that I think that, that there are ants, especially in today's world with the internet, the you know, as as completely readily available as it is, you could find out anything, like I could run, I could learn anything in the next five minutes if I wanted to. So you kind of have to want it, I think,

Kelsey Duman 23:50
for sure. And I think, you know, being at camp, you are in a cabin in the middle of the woods, usually with kids your own age who all are experiencing the same thing. And that's what you have in common, right. So it's crazy, like some of my best friends are from camp and they're people that I probably if I met them on the side of the road wouldn't have become best friends with them, just because we're so different. But you have those shared experiences and the same daily challenges. And it just you connect on that different level. And so obviously, those conversations are going to come up. And like you said, you take what you want from it. So obviously not great that camp was a source of damaging information for her in that sense. But you're there's also, you know, probably tenfold the amount of good information that kids can take. I would know and and just those tips. I mean, you're talking about the tips of of I'm assuming probably dying bulimia Yes. But the tips of you know what to do when you're feeling like you know, diabetes just sucks and I don't want to do that. This anymore. And you know, I've had conversations with kids that are struggling with eating disorders, but they feel like there's that safe space where they can talk about it. And whether they're approaching it from a, this is what I'm doing. And I'm not sure if, like how I feel about it, or I need help. And no one else understands how I'm doing this to myself. And so I need to talk to someone who really understands diabetes to really get this. It just creates that that almost internal community. And you're out for a week and most of the camps don't allow kids to have their cell phones with them or internet or anything. So you're with the people you're with. And it just creates that that open space of just talking through those things.

Scott Benner 25:46
How do you negotiate that? Because that seems like such a great idea to leave your cell phone at the door kind of how do you how to even hear comedians talk about it now like if you go to see comedy live, they'll they they there's a there's literally an industry around bagging people's cell phones at live events. So interesting, so that your phones Stay safe, and it's and protected. And they can get back to you because you can't come into the into their performance with a cell phone because the comedian doesn't want to be up there thinking you're about to take four words that they say and turn it into some, you know, misrepresented or something like that. They want to be free to talk. So I love the idea of those kids coming into the camp, leaving their electronics behind. But how do you do that when their electronics are their insulin pump? Were there CGM to?

Kelsey Duman 26:33
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a huge concern among parents, for sure. But there's, like I said, I work with the diabetes education and camping Association. And they've done a great job of kind of helping camps figure out ways where you don't need your cell phone to access your Dexcom. So right, if a kid has a T slim pump, they ask the kid to put take the Dexcom off their phone, turn in their phone, and then rely on the Dexcom that's on their pump. I think what you said in the beginning there of how do you negotiate that with like these teenagers who are glued to their phone any other day of the week, and they're showing up at this place where maybe they've never been, and now you're asking them to give up their like, safety blanket. And I think sometimes it's a little tough, but I think kids can be more logical than we give them credit for. And so when they understand that, you know, like at christeli basketball camp, we're going to be playing basketball all day, like the only breaks you're going to get are for meals and snacks and to test your blood sugar if you feel low. So they kind of get like, Well, okay, I'm going to be busy. I guess I won't have time I don't want my phone to fall out on the court and break. And actually, at christeli basketball camp, we have them turn it in, kind of like you're talking about with the comedy guys and put them in a bag, put their name on it. And then it goes in the camp store. And there's an hour period in the afternoon where they have some free time they can shower, they can go to the pool, and they're allowed to check their phone out just to check in with mom and dad or whatever. Yeah, notice. Yeah, exactly. Right. But we've noticed that a lot of them just leave their phone there. Right. And it's I think it speaks to how we've built that community and that kind of positive energy of like, building connections with the people who you're with, because they are showing us that they'd rather hang out with their new friends then get on their phone and go on Instagram or Tiktok or whatever.

Scott Benner 28:42
No, I mean, that that aspect of what you're saying is magical. The idea that they wouldn't have a phone too. I mean, because what does a phone really do? Right? It stimulates you in a way that real life almost can't, you know, and, and so it feels better. It's more comfortable. It's soothing. You know, it's all the things that talking to a person should be or playing basketball or something like that. But um, I'll use my daughter as an example, if you took Arden's phone from her. She's she's done. Like she's looping, right? So Right. She can't like, you know, would you ask her to go on MDI while she was there?

Kelsey Duman 29:16
Oh, that's true. Because you're looping Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:19
To be near her.

Kelsey Duman 29:20
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, what's interesting with the last couple years of COVID interruptions, is we haven't had the chance at least to Crystal the basketball camp to have a looper at camp. Yeah. And like, I know, Chris himself loops and so he's all for it. But because we haven't had camp the last couple years, we haven't had a chance to see what that would look like. And I think I think honestly, the if it was, you know, only up to me which there's a whole team of medical professionals that would make these decisions, but from kind of a Camp Director mindset, if you will, I obviously if she needs her phone as her pump, she needs it right. Like that's a non starter. And so I think it would be a, a question of okay, so can you, you know, turn off the data, keep on your Bluetooth and and I looped for a little bit, but it's been a while. And really just whether she has her phone and it's just functioning as the pump and CGM, and it's not a, she's sitting on her phone talking to her friends, which she doesn't sound like she would kind of kid that would do. Well, that's,

Scott Benner 30:39
you know, what's interesting is, we've, we've come so far in society where you can't like, I imagine a time where you tell the kids look, you're here, I know, you own a phone, but you don't use it. And then they actually listen to you. Like, right, that to me would be the pinnacle of this, this concept actually teaching people to integrate their This isn't your job at camp, but but it would be nice if people could actually understand how to integrate technology into their lives without allowing the technology to take over their life. Right?

Kelsey Duman 31:09
Yeah, sure. Yeah, well, and I know other camps, like Yale's Creek who I work closely with, they don't have cell service out there. So they don't have to do as much as we do with like, protecting the phones and putting them in their own little box so that the kids aren't tempted with them. Because they're it's you know, if they're looping great if they're not there phones, just kind of an iPod type of a thing. So Kelsey, I

Scott Benner 31:34
think that was an odd Oregon flex you just did there. You're like we have cell service where we're at. You know, I just imagined Oregon to be like, a countless acres of 300 foot tall trees that are four feet from each other and nothing. Is there. I mean, that's pretty much what it is. Yeah, you have you have granola weaved into the dreadlocks under your arms right now. Is that right? Exactly? What? Okay, let me make you the king of the world for a second. Oh, okay. And, and but we'll keep you in your camp. Space. What could diabetes can't be that it currently isn't?

Kelsey Duman 32:15
Oh, gosh. Wow. That's a great question. Of

Scott Benner 32:18
course it is. That's why the podcast is listened to by many, many people. But don't ask the silly questions. I want to know, here's what I think when I'm talking to you. I'll give you a chance to think for a second. Yeah, I think young, smart type one, you're married to type one, which I don't even think we've gotten to yet right? Eventually, you're gonna have a baby. It's gonna like how we come out with an insulin pump on its forehead or something like that. So what, like, Do you dream or like, Well, you're in fairness, some people go to work, and they like facilitating and doing a job. And some people will live their whole lives doing that. And some people are at work thinking this could be better. This could be like, Are you a person who thinks about how to make things better? Or are you taking a lot of joy out of making the machine work?

Kelsey Duman 33:05
No, for sure. I definitely am always thinking about, you know, how can we change this? How could we improve or expand? Really? Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:14
we're getting more out of it even like, make Yeah, something. Maybe there's an I always think this about everything. Like maybe this thing has a purpose that we don't know yet. And like, What could this thing do? If it was all together like this, if we if we like wiped away all the norms that were in our heads, and the way we think things are supposed to be? Like, what's the opportunity here? We're bringing kids together, they're at camp with an, you know, oh, you know, operated by a type one who was a long time NBA player. So super exciting. Plus, you're in Oregon, and you have cell service. You people are like, literally like kings, you know, Thrones with your cell service. We're like, what? What's there that that's right in front of you that you don't see or that you see, but it's hard to get to happen. Like, that's what I want to know, like, how do you make it more than it is?

Kelsey Duman 34:07
So the first thing that comes to mind, and I'm sure there's so many different routes I could take with my thought process in this. But, you know, kids go to camp, and then they age out. And that's it. Right? And it's interesting because I'm sure and you I mean, Arden 17 Right. Oh, in a couple of days. Oh, wow. Well, Happy Birthday Arden. Um, but like you're gonna get to that point that I, you know, have gone through as a young person with type one where you're transitioning from high school to college and then college to the real world. And there's so much change in that for anyone. But then you add type one on top of it and it's there's so much to just kind of wrap wrap your head around psychologically and physically and Basal right why's that that's like a huge transition point for young adults with type one. And I think I mean camps amazing. And as a kid, it was, at least for me like a huge amount of support and really helped me accept type one and embrace type one and use that to my advantage rather than it being something that hinders me. And then I was lucky enough to be so passionate about camp that I immediately went into being a camp counselor for the whole summer. And so I kind of just fell back into that support, because I was working in it. But there's so many kids who, you know, turn 18, they can't be campers anymore, they maybe don't, like have that passion or have the availability to work a camp all summer. And now they're just set free on their own. And I just think that there's such an opportunity there for camp to continue, whether it's an adult camp, which I know some people do host, but just to kind of extend that support, because as a kid, you're there's so much that stays the same, right, like from elementary school to high school so much that changes also, but your biggest changes are right after high school. So I think just finding ways to apply the magic or the science, if you will of camp to that next step.

Scott Benner 36:31
Yeah. So, so a way for young adults to be connected to each other, even if they can't go show up in the woods together for eight weeks. Right? Right. Yeah. Especially when they're now trying to figure out management stuff. That's not going to be completely obvious to them at first. Right, right. You need other people to speak to. Yeah, yeah. That's, I just think that's the key to this whole thing. Yeah, that not everybody is going to have all the ideas that they need, or, you know, they'll miss one little piece, and how great is it to be able to blurt it out. And I'll tell you what I believe, as the podcast grows, numbers are important. So it's not necessarily that everyone speaks, it's it's necessarily that everyone can see it. Because because if you take, if you take 50 people and ask a question, you might not get the answer. If you ask 50,000 people, you're gonna have somebody with some lived experience. Yeah. And their odds go way up, it really makes things easier. Because then people chime in, I think people are your fault a little bit by social media. There's, there's this idea that everybody that you see talking is everybody that's there, right. But I know like the rule of 10s exists in a big way, you reach 100,000 people to find 10,000 people to do something of those 10,000 people, only 1000 of them will take the next step of those 1000 Only 100 It really is true. Most people lurk, they stand back and they watch. And so, but when you hit in their sweet spot, they just jump. There's a person, they'll probably hear this, that I don't think I've ever heard from before. And then the other day, I asked about buying a more comfortable chair to record the podcast in and he was just like, so excited. He's like, I finally have something to contribute here. I know about this. And like, here they are, you know? Yeah. And meanwhile, no one else answered. Really. Right. And it was like it was I found the one person is like, I have real solid thoughts on this. And here's some links. And here are my thoughts. And this is what I think you should be looking at. And I think that works for everything. You know, here's my graph. What does it look like to you? Well, to one person, it looks like too much Basal to another person, it looks like you're not doing well with your meals. And then you have a conversation, you find a vector of attack. And three days later, the person comes back because Oh, I did it. It's all done. Yeah, like three days to go from a graph. That is horrifying to I did it. And yeah, meanwhile, people are going off to doctors for 612 18 months just to get their Basal rates from point three to point six. Right. Yeah. And, and, and that's demoralizing. That wasted time in there. I find really frustrating. So connections to people are really important.

Kelsey Duman 39:29
Yeah. And I think to your point, on the flip side a little bit, you know, there's so many people on social media or wherever giving advice or talking about their story. And I think there's a danger of feeling like, Well, what do I have to offer? Because there's so many people once you get plugged into those resources, there's so many people who have something to say, and it can maybe feel like, well, what am I going to say that's going to be any different or make any sort of impact but somewhere out there is someone that needs needs to hear what kind of chair to buy. And no one else is talking about that. And something even if it's just a little snippet that you say, can completely change their mindset?

Scott Benner 40:08
Well, you know, it can help with there being too many voices is and I tripped on this by mistake, but I think the podcast curated the Facebook group. So there are people who had already been through, you know, hundreds of hours of the podcast, and they were now far enough along the path to know what they didn't know. And that stops the extraneous people from coming in and saying something is really not very valuable are completely formed. And so people know, there's enough people here who do know, I don't need to give my my half baked answer here. Because I don't really know. Because you know, when you don't really have all the answers, you're like, Well, what I'm seeing is this when someone can come in and just like break it down for you. Right? It's there's, I don't think it's something you can't build it on purpose. But you can build it with intent, like you can start with something small with the right intent, don't lose track of the good intent. For me, it's super simple, like everything I do. I try to help people. But that's it. I only have one goal, like, is this going to help somebody? If it's not, it's not worth time? Yeah. And then the things that people find valuable. They kind of, you know, they they come towards, and then that grows it. And then the growth creates the whole thing, but you're limited when you do it. In the real world. You're limited by bunk space, or money or something like that. Where's the thing I build is free, basically. Yeah. For them. And for me, I mean, I don't put any great, great finances into it. Right. But But, but but it does then lack the human interaction. Right. Right. So Right. So if you had a wish, what would you wish for camp that it didn't have limits as far as people are? But would you? Oh, absolutely.

Kelsey Duman 42:00
I mean, I think the camping industry as a whole is sometimes viewed as whether it's diabetes camp, or not just viewed as unaccessible. For some people, whether that's because of finances or traveling, or you know, if there's a camp that's close to them. In and that's, I think, sometimes a tough pill for me to swallow, because I'm like, I want everyone at camp, everybody needs this. And I think just continuing I mean, diabetes camps have great resources. As far as scholarships, I'm pretty sure all the diabetes camps I know of have a baseline rule of we will never deny anyone based on finances, like we'll find a way. And a lot of camps have, you know, Lions Club members that'll drive kids to camp if their families don't have cars. So there's ways to do it. But I just don't think that it's always viewed that way. And so kind of changing that narrative and meeting the expectation as well. Of campus for everyone, like everybody belongs at camp, and it should be available to everyone. And everyone should feel like it's a safe space, a open space. And somewhere that they truly feel like they belong. And I think just like anything in our world today, like the camping industry has a ways to go with that. But kind of like you said, with the right intent, and then meeting the actions that are actually going to meet those expectations. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask by any means. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:43
That's cool. I do you think this is an industry you're gonna stay in? Huh?

Kelsey Duman 43:48
Yeah, absolutely. I kind of a weird, a weird, not weird experience, but a meaningful experience when I was like, 16 I just kind of had this moment of like, what do I want to do with my life and I just ever since then, I keep coming back to camp. And I'm, you know, in my master's program right now for nonprofit management. And people are like, Oh, I'm going to work for Make a wish or I'm going to work for you know, these big nonprofit organizations. And I just keep coming back to camp and I'm learning great tools to help me in that but it this is definitely the industry that I feel called to serve in. So

Scott Benner 44:30
So I I've never said I've definitely never said this out loud. It's getting to the point where there's so many episodes I'm like, I really don't think I've ever said this, but my first foray into being helpful to people never got out of the planning stages. But okay, I did like I applied to be a charity. I guess I've got one c three or something like that. Right. And yeah, my idea was to set it seems ridiculous. Now I'm saying it out loud. Just because it seems odd. attainable without somebody without an influx of money. But I wanted to start a place where newly diagnosed or lost people could come and live with their families and be brought up to speed very quickly. Oh, that's awesome. Right? That was my that was my idea. I obviously do it now, online like this, right, like through radio. But that was my first idea is that there would be a structure somewhere that you could come and live at. And then And then because you'd be getting up in the morning and eating breakfast and going outside and being active or sitting down and doing school or whatever you'd be doing, you'd be living at that place for a short amount of time, in a way that you could end up having as many real life experiences around diabetes and insulin as possible, where someone would be with you the whole time to say, Okay, do this, do that do this because I see it. Now. If I followed, you're not that you would need that. I'm just saying you. But if I followed your CGM, and you and I were in close texting contact, like for two or three days, and you were having an issue, I'm confident we can clear the issue. Right, right. And so I thought if people were like together, and what is it, they really get from that? Whether you're in that texting situation, or you're together, it's a sounding board from a person who very likely does know the right thing to do in this situation. And so that that weeds out all of the, the extraneous noise in your head, like, Well, maybe it's this or maybe I should be doing that. Instead, it's just someone that goes, no, no, look right here. There's not enough insulin here. Right? You put it in, and then you watch the good thing happen. You learn really quickly. That was my that was my first idea. It is not easy to have a nonprofit I don't. There are so many things about it that scare me. And the one thing that really pushed me away from it was the Board of Directors, I got very scared of the idea of someone being over able to override my vision. And so that I dissolved that soon after that.

Kelsey Duman 47:06
Well, I mean, I think the idea is awesome. Like, honestly, the first thing I think of is it's like a Kickstarter camp, right? Like you get diagnosed, you go to Scotts camp for newly diagnosed, and you get kind of this simplified education. And now you're off to the races.

Scott Benner 47:25
In my mind, it's still doable online. Yeah, I do bring it up to a couple of people like, like, imagine someone like Jenny, who's at a desk. And instead of like, being with people, I don't know, imagine you could pop right onto a zoom, and say, Hey, this is it, then we're about the breakfast, blah, blah, blah, here it is. And she could actually look at it. And you can talk for a couple of seconds and work through it. Because still, like one of the, one of the restrictions of her job, or and I've, you know, where I've helped people were one of the restrictions is that sometimes people don't know, everything they should be telling you. So they leave out this one really like salient detail. And you're like, I don't understand why this didn't work out. And three days later, though, mentioned that, you know, they had oatmeal, you're like, oh, geez, you just said carbs. You didn't say it was oatmeal. You know, like that kind of thing. The evilness of all right, but it's there, like in my maniacal part of my brain, like, I'm picturing myself in a room, like with an infinite number of monitors, able to, like bring people up to speed really quickly. But there's got to be a real way to do that. Like, there's got to be a way to take that cartoon idea and make it more of a reality. Yeah, if I ask you, cuz you're gonna have a mastery by then you'll have real thoughts.

Kelsey Duman 48:48
Pretty soon, December.

Scott Benner 48:50
Right? And I don't even think like it shouldn't. It should be. It should be through your health care system. Yes. Like you should, you should be diagnosed. And you should leave with like a voucher. Like I used to get my mom on Mother's Day when I couldn't afford a present. Right? And it should tell you that when you're ready, somebody is going to walk through every aspect of your day with you into and then and then, you know, for a certain amount of time, and if you're really stuck, then you get moved to a different person. Like don't be mean like maybe somebody who's I don't know, it's there. Trust me. It's there. But no, I yeah, I'm all in I love it. The model is definitely not some nice person. Well, meaning doctor sees you for 14 minutes and send you home. That's not how it should. Right. So

Kelsey Duman 49:39
well. And you had mentioned, you know, it should be part of healthcare, and I've had people tell me, like, Why doesn't my insurance cover my camp tuition? And it's like, oh, man, I wish it did right. Because there's so much value in those experiences at camp like I gave my first shot to myself at camp. It's like huge right and a seven year old with type one. It's like The reality though of working with insurance companies to get them to cover a camp tuition. I mean, I can barely get them to cover my Dexcom supplies. Like,

Scott Benner 50:09
I'm pretty certain that Arden I mean, I know our it'll be 17 in a couple of days. I'm fairly certain she's never given herself an injection. Oh, I use diabetes for third 15 years. Right? And I don't think he's ever even come up.

Kelsey Duman 50:26
Yeah, well, and I mean, that speaks to the, the change in, in how good technology is now to like, she's gotten to have diabetes, I guess in this world where it was only a dream. When I was first diagnosed. I remember the doctors told my parents when I was diagnosed, will there'll be a cure by the time she turns 18. I'm like, well, it's 11 years later and still waiting on that gear. But now you I mean, I show my parents like my T slim that's connected to my Dexcom and they're it's like mind blowing to them because they went from this massive insulin pump and injections to this tiny little sleek touchpad

Scott Benner 51:09
plus their their indigenous people to a tree community. They really have never seen stuff like exactly. I have probably given Arden 10,000 injections, right? Yeah, but she's never like challenge she's ever really ever hold held the syringe. I mean, I'm sure she has, but I can't remember it. Right. So

Kelsey Duman 51:29
I still remember, I and I must have been seven and a half. So it's crazy to me that I remember this moment. But I remember being in my parents house, and I was holding the poker to my meter, right? Because there was no Dexcom back then. And I was like you can do it. Kelsey, you can do it. Like in my little seven year old mine. I'm like, you can poke your own finger. And I like counted to 10 and I poked my own finger and I was so proud of myself and how I

Scott Benner 51:57
looked the first time I did it to myself. And I was in my 40s I was like this is gonna hurt. I know this is gonna hurt. Is this gonna hurt? I don't want this to hurt. People say it doesn't hurt. Oh, it's not bad. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Like it's sort of over. But very, I love the idea of like a little kid just being like, I can do it. I can do it.

Kelsey Duman 52:18
Yeah, hype yourself up. Yeah. What, um,

Scott Benner 52:22
this is an unfair question that you're gonna probably answer, you know, with a disclaimer, but why do you seem so normal? And like, did you have any? I don't, I don't know how I mean, it says, Do you have any impediments? And while I've now spoken to so many people who have diabetes, and people seem to fall in like these two specific buckets, like, really burdened by it, don't really seem to mind it. I don't, I don't. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, what is that? For you?

Kelsey Duman 52:53
I mean, I obviously hear some disclaimer coming right out the chute. I've definitely had my ups and downs with diabetes. College was tough, right? Like, I remember having this moment where I was like, Oh, if my blood sugar doesn't ride to 50 all day, I feel so much better. And I do better in classes. And it's like that lightbulb moment of you're like, Well, that was pretty obvious. I should have figured that out. But you get distracted. And so yeah, I've definitely had my days just like anyone else where you're like, diabetes sucks. I don't want to do this anymore. But truly, and, and I'm coming right back to it. Like, I feel like camp was that game changer for me. Of an I owe a lot of that to my parents, because as soon as I got diagnosed, they sent me to camp. But that was I think I was privileged to learn early on that there were other people who had the same struggles as me that there, you know, were resources that I could turn to when it was tough. And I, I fell in love so much with that camp community that I almost became grateful to diabetes for giving me that, that support system. And I mean, gosh, I we didn't get to have our wedding in 2020 because of COVID. But when we were planning it, five out of my seven bridesmaids had type one and I met them all at camp. Our best man was a friend from camp. So I feel like I've gotten so much good out of having diabetes because of those camp connections. That it's it's kind of hard to resent it so much just because I have so much to be grateful for with it. And, you know, Camp also helped me capitalize on some of the skills that diabetes brings into your life and really identify like, Hey, I, you know, had to be responsible at a young age, but now I have that responsibility skill that I've had since I was seven you know, so kind I feel like I mean, camp was definitely the game changer. And it helped teach me that there are parts of diabetes that I can be grateful for

Scott Benner 55:08
right. Now I agree with you. I think that it's there's something about the struggle that's valuable. If the struggle doesn't kill you. Yeah, like that kind of pressure. And there are some people I think, who are, are built differently, wired differently. And that the same struggle that might enrich you could stop them. Yeah, yeah. And it's just it's fascinating to see that how random it appears.

Kelsey Duman 55:39
Yeah, well, and I think to your point, it almost feels like a bit of a duty, if you will to, because I, I fell into that camp of like, feeling okay, and really embracing this and using it to my advantage, it feels like I have a responsibility to work with people who don't feel that way. And see if I can help be that support system that whether it changes their mind or just supports them. Because it's, I mean, like you said, there's two different kinds of people. I feel like with type one, and you either embrace it, or you deal with it, and that doesn't always end up great. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:20
I feel like that to Kelsey. If we were only 30 years closer together, and I had diabetes. I could have marriage. Worse, I can't live in a tree though. My hands. Oh, true. Have the thumb under the branches the right way? Way I'm sure you do from growing up in Oregon. Right, right. How did you meet your husband?

Kelsey Duman 56:41
So speaking of things I can be grateful to diabetes for? Yeah, so my husband has type one. We actually met at diabetes camp. Shocker. I know. We met in 2016. And he actually never went to diabetes camp as a kid. But he is a basketball coach. And obviously, Crystal, the basketball camp is a diabetes basketball camp. And he had been applying for quite a few years to come and work the camp. And there was just never an opening. And they needed a coach one year and he came to Camp. And of course, all of our camp friends caught wind that we were maybe interested in each other. And they set up a whole camp skit for the talent show of how we were going to start dating and Oh, man. Thanks, can your camp friends really get involved in your personal life? Oh, great. Yeah,

Scott Benner 57:36
I felt like you were about to say this one time at diabetes camp. Right. Okay, for years that he couldn't get the job. Were you with somebody at that time anyway? I'm trying to imagine imagine if he got the job sooner. But you were with somebody. So you didn't intersect? Well?

Kelsey Duman 57:52
Oh, yeah. No, the timing was just awesome. I mean, like he and I both had been dating other people until about two years prior to that. So we both kind of had our time to be single. And then by the time he came to camp, it was like, wow, I'm really glad that this worked out now. type of thing.

Scott Benner 58:12
How much did having diabetes for I don't know, if you can't really speak for him. I'm already in my head. Like, you're gonna be like, I can't speak for him. But. But how much does it mean for the two of you to have type one? Or doesn't it matter?

Kelsey Duman 58:31
So good question, man. Scott coming in with the hard hitters.

Scott Benner 58:34
Like if he got cured tomorrow, would you be like, I don't even like him as much now.

Kelsey Duman 58:42
No, I mean, it's interesting, because we both have had very different experiences with type one. I feel like we're both in that camp of like, accepting it and embracing it. But like, we both have very different management styles. I feel like now that we're married, we're kind of getting on more of the same page with that, but like it. I mean, I think it it definitely helps. But it's never been like a forefront of our relationship.

Scott Benner 59:10
You weren't looking for a guy with type want to get married? No, no. Okay. You just said something. I'm gonna pin you down on it. Now you both have different styles, who styles?

Kelsey Duman 59:23
Different parts of different like when I first met him, he might hate me for saying this, but he'll be fine. Don't worry.

Scott Benner 59:30
I'm gonna hate you one way or the other. So let's just get Yeah, exactly. When

Kelsey Duman 59:33
I first met him, he was like he was he didn't have a or no, he had a CGM, but it was the Medtronic one and it was old enough that he had to calibrate it three times a day. And he said he held out his finger and he was like, I poke on this side of my thumb in the morning and the top is lunch and the side is dinner. And then I move on the next day to my pointer finger and I was just looking at him like what are you talking about? But you but he's also a math teacher. Right? So he's got that like logical, very organized mind that I don't. And I joke with him I'm like, so do you change your Lancet everyday too, because this isn't gonna work if you do.

Scott Benner 1:00:18
Well, you know, a math teacher and a camp counselor, one day, you guys will amass 10s of dollars to in your savings account. Yeah, tell me about it. So there's something there too, right? Like that. That feeling of helping people? He must have that as well. If he's a teacher.

Kelsey Duman 1:00:39
Yeah, for sure. Teacher and he coaches football and basketball. So we definitely both have. I think that more than like, obviously, we both have diabetes, which is a huge thing to have in common. But I think even more than that, it was the you're here at Camp to help people just like I am. You love working with kids and your daily like, life just like I do. And it both just happened to be because of diabetes. Yeah, that we met.

Scott Benner 1:01:07
So it's very nice. It really is kind of lovely. And, and sweet. But you guys got married during COVID? What did that mean? For different bedrooms? Or how did you

Kelsey Duman 1:01:18
know so we our wedding was planned for May 23. And we had this like 250 person wedding at Camp it was going to be at camp because that's where we met. And we had it pretty much all planned. And then like three weeks before it, you know, COVID was like still around and we're like, well, crap, what do we do? So we had to just pivot the Word of 2020. And we actually did a 10 person wedding because that was the max people that you were allowed to have gathered at that point. And it was just our immediate families. My brother married us my his sister was there who was going to be one of my bridesmaids, and then our parents. And we did it at my parents house in the middle of the woods.

Scott Benner 1:02:11
nowhere else to go. Right. Exactly.

Kelsey Duman 1:02:15
Yeah. And so it was it was it was a wonderful wedding. We, you know, we it was still at that point in COVID. Where people didn't really know like, what to do how careful to be like we didn't have I mean, Derek and I had but like, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:34
But we didn't have Yeah, when you're on your wedding day, your dad. No.

Kelsey Duman 1:02:39
And my parents were like very concerned about it. As we're all of us. And with Derek and I both having type one we were like, you know, at that point, like no one knew what was going to make it worse or better or safer. Or this

Scott Benner 1:02:53
this sweet story turns into a weird headline seven days later. Right? Exactly.

Kelsey Duman 1:02:59
And we were so nervous at that point. Like, no, our parents are older and oh, gosh, it could uh, it was in that like those those few months where it was like, what's going on? What

Scott Benner 1:03:10
is COVID? When does? When does camp come back? When's the next time Chris is running the camp.

Kelsey Duman 1:03:15
So we're doing unfortunately, this year, we have to do virtual camp again. Oregon just lifted a bunch of restrictions. But being a diabetes camp, we need a lot of prep time and doctors to hire and nurses to hire and so we're doing virtual camp end of this month. And we're super excited. I will tell you I thought the kids would be like, nope, everything's opened up. Nevermind I don't want to do virtual camp. But I keep getting emails from parents about how excited they are. And we just shipped off 75 boxes of like fun swag and gifts for them. So we're doing that this year, and then next July will be knock on wood fingers crossed back on the courts in Virginia, Oregon. In the middle of the woods.

Scott Benner 1:04:04
We'll be rolling that's really cool. Although Yeah, I guess a virtual camp you can't like meet a girl and kiss her behind a cabin or something like that. That's got it that's got to be rampant. How old? Are these kids?

Kelsey Duman 1:04:15
They are 10 through 17 some of them maybe some of them maybe? Yeah, I keep a close eye

Scott Benner 1:04:20
that you know a lot of a lot of adults. I know some of their best stories start with when I was in camp. And yeah, boy and I don't mean best stories like they learned math. Oh, boy. Well, I guess that's um, that's all kind of part of it. Where do you fall on? I mean, I The answer is obvious here. But I'm asking you literally because I saw somebody post this and on Facebook this morning I saw a young 22 year old I think guy say that. He was always family oriented and then was diagnosed at Brown this age and now it's scared to have a family? And do you? Are you scared of a family?

Kelsey Duman 1:05:04
You know, I'm not, I wouldn't say my husband or I are. And I think part of that is we just are, that's something that both of us have always wanted, is to have kids. The other part of it is, and this might come off odd to some people, and maybe this is just how I justify it to myself. But I, I feel like and even having a husband, I always thought this, but having a husband with type one obviously increases the odds of our kids having type one. But I guess my philosophy is, well, if they have type one, at least they'll be in a family that gets it knows how to manage it, and has like the resources like if my kids get to go to diabetes camp someday, I know they're going to be fine. And so at least, God forbid they get type one, but at least we'll know the signs to catch it early. And we'll have all the tools to make it as good of an experience as possible. So

Scott Benner 1:06:02
no, I think that's the I think there are a number of different ways to think about it. And I don't find one to be any more or less viable than the other. And for a lot of people say what you just said, and I think it's a I think it's comforting to hear, honestly.

Kelsey Duman 1:06:17
Well, and I mean, as much as there's extra odds that they will get type one, I have a couple other friends who both parents have type one and their kids don't. Yeah, so it's kind of like, well, it could not happen.

Scott Benner 1:06:30
I just think that you're trying to control. I don't know, randomness is a weird decision to make, like, if you think I think if you think you'd be so overwhelmed. If your child had type one, no matter how that would overwhelm you with need to do something or guilt or whatever would be that would I also think it's possibly different for people who are having a different time, like managing, like, if you're if a reasonable time managing, it seems more manageable. Right. But, but if I also like I like it when people know their limitations, too, and they say, Yeah, this would overwhelm me, this isn't something I should do. Absolutely. But you know, for November. I'm talking out of order in the timeline, but there'll be an episode November of a from a woman who, you know, adopted children, they wanted children couldn't have children adopted children. And then one of the children ends up with type one diabetes, and the other one ends up with something else, just this right. Through this randomness, and no way. Yeah. So. So I mean, there's an example. Right? Like, you don't get to decide how it works out. Right, you know, so you're either in to make a family and you're in for whatever comes next. Or that's not for you. And I think either way, is reasonable, just I think knowing that is probably the ultimate truth is it to me to see how I'm so willing to just speak like healthy, like what I think is the exact right thing. To me, that's the ultimate truth. Like, you're not going to get a clean. Like, like go the whole time. There's nobody I know who doesn't have something going on. If it's not. If it's not health, then it's money. And if it's not money, then it's bad family situations, if it's not, and the real unlucky people get multiples of those things. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's anyone walking around who wakes up in the morning. It's like, Hmm, everything's perfect. Right? I'll just go about my perfect day and do my perfect things. And if people are expecting that out of parenthood, I mean, from my perspective, you're making a huge mistake. Right? Yeah. So are you gonna make the babies are you like, what's the play? Because I mean, you're not old Kelsey, but you know what I'm saying?

Kelsey Duman 1:08:51
Yeah, I mean,

Scott Benner 1:08:54
when you're 65 going like, right? Oh, golly.

Kelsey Duman 1:08:59
No, I mean, I definitely think the plan is to try naturally. And I mean, if for some reason that doesn't work, like you mentioned, the, the person who adopted I've always I met this family through camp one year that they had a daughter with type one. And then they had found or not found this girl, but like, someone had come to them and said, Here's this girl, and she also has type one. And we know you know how to manage it. And she needs a family. And they were like, cool. Let's have two kids with type one, like, come on in. And I just thought that was so cool. So that's something that I would definitely consider as well.

Scott Benner 1:09:35
There's somebody who's been on the show who I think does. Oh my God, the word just left my head. Where's the word? DMA Kelsey. Where's the word when you're a person? And then a kid comes and leaves you there for a little while? With the ID sir. Thank you. Wow, that was terrible. Um, yeah, this person has been honors postures kids with type one. Oh, that's so cool. difficult, but you know, I think rewarding and valuable. Listen, I'm adopted. If somebody, if somebody didn't give me up for adoption, when they thought they couldn't take care of me, you and I are not having this conversation right now. So, you know, people need to find whatever path works for them. But, you know, there's a lot of good things that can come from making a family. So yeah,

Kelsey Duman 1:10:21
that person, the the person you mentioned, that fosters do they have type one themselves? They do? See, I mean, how cool is that for those kids, right? Like, you come from foster care where you're probably not meeting many other people with type one. And now you get a safe home. And someone that gets it, right, like, that just takes so much burden off those kids.

Scott Benner 1:10:42
If I remember the, if I remember the example, right, it was difficult in the beginning, beginning but a really swift change for the kid, you know, so that's really cool. Alright, so go adopt a bunch of babies just make sure they can hang in a tree, you know? Yeah. And we're good. forage on the ground for nuts and mushrooms and things like that, that grow it? Yeah. Where do you really live? Is it like, a metropolis or something like that? Or?

Kelsey Duman 1:11:09
So I live in Albany, which is like an hour south of Portland

Scott Benner 1:11:14
feel like area? My name from New York isn't? Yeah, probably. But it was they were out of names.

Kelsey Duman 1:11:22
Yeah, exactly. There's had to start copying pasting. But I mean, it's, I mean, it's definitely green here. But I'm in like, a little suburb area.

Scott Benner 1:11:31
But you're high all the time. Blood sugar wise, maybe. Oh, my God. So there you go. That's what I know about Albany, weed and trees. And I, I might be wrong about all of it. Right. I so is there anything that we haven't talked about that you hoped that we would have? I really I find myself before you answer that question. You You have so many different interesting perspectives, that I jumped around a lot trying to dig into all of your areas of expertise. But I don't know if you did you know, you'd be good on the podcast.

Kelsey Duman 1:12:08
I mean, not really. I knew after I talked with you, when we we talked with Chris, I was like, He's, you're just really easy to talk to. And I love the questions that you ask. And so I was like, I'm sure he'll ask questions that I can dig deep for good answer.

Scott Benner 1:12:24
Does it make you feel uncomfortable or comfortable to know that as I sat in this chair, I was like, I don't know who I'm talking to today. And then I looked up and I was like, Kelsey, I think that's the Chris Dudley girl.

Kelsey Duman 1:12:36
No, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And I love I mean, I love that you can just jump on with anyone and have a conversation about this stuff that speaks to your expertise in the podcast realm,

Scott Benner 1:12:49
I find people so interesting. So I have so many questions that I don't get to ask. Like, if I asked all the questions, I was thinking, every episode would be three hours. Right? Like I yeah, I have so many questions about. I want to I want to ask you more probing questions about about camp like, what, um, what would you say to somebody who doesn't? Like camp? Like, it's not for everybody?

Kelsey Duman 1:13:32
I love that question.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
What are you gonna answer that question? For I'll preface it by telling you this for years after Arden was diagnosed for like, you know, there's a really popular diabetes camp and she was like, no, no, no, like, that's not Arden's vibe. It's not just diabetes. Like you couldn't you couldn't send Arden to lollipop camp. She'd be like, I'm not up for that, like, you know, so. I don't even know what it is something about being outdoors that much maybe she's particular about the people she hangs out with. Yeah. I don't know. But what what do you what do you say to people, when I'm assuming people show up at their door, the parents are like, super excited for camp and the kid gets out of the carny. Like the kid doesn't look very excited. Like, Oh, yeah.

Kelsey Duman 1:14:17
Oh, yeah. Uh, yeah. So I love this question, because those kids show up at camp and you can just tell they don't want to be there, whether they're like, bawling their eyes out, or they're just like, not talking to anyone. And I'm like, you're my guy, like, I'm gonna go talk to you. Um, but like you said, it's not for everyone. And that's okay. Right. Like, I think the biggest thing is for people to recognize is that not all camps are the same. So like riding on insulin, awesome. Ski and Snowboard camp. looks very different than gills creek where you are out in the woods and hanging out in cabins and going on hikes and doing arts and crafts. Similarly, like So the basketball camp completely different, right? You're playing basketball all day. So I know kids that hated other camps but love deadly camp because they love basketball. And it's their interest is there. And so I think the what I would say to those families or those kids is to not rule out all camps just because you're not interested in one. And to really look into what camp entails because there is kind of that connotation of oh, well, summer camp, you're going to be out in the middle of the woods, you're not going to have you know, running water or what have you. But it's so different for every other camp riding on insulin is at the ski lodge, it's usually just a day camp. But you still get those camp vibes of connecting and doing something that you're interested in or trying something new with people who understand diabetes. And I think, I mean, writing on insulin, I think you can get just as much out of it as you do from day overnight in a traditional summer camp. So I think that would be my first bit of advice for people who are like, ooh, camp. But my other bit of advice would be just to try it. Right. And that's tough for some kids. But I, I've seen so many kids that just do not want to be at camp, and then they leave on Friday crying because they don't want to leave. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of, if you can get your kid to just try it, then there's a lot of development. And the campers or the counselors, and the staff are so well trained. Like we know, there's kids coming in who don't want to be there, like we're ready for those guys. And gals. But, yeah, I just, I think it's worth trying it. And if you don't like it, you know, that's okay. There's other like the podcast or the diabetes online community, there's other ways of support and other ways of meeting people that you can connect with, that are just as powerful. But I think it's worth a shot. If you can give it a try.

Scott Benner 1:17:06
It's cool that you've got it thought through like that I because I know, personally from the podcast that you have this feeling that there's this thing, and you've already made it, and it exists and you've seen it do so much good things for so many good, so many good things for so many people. And then somebody says I don't have time to listen, or you're like, ah, like it's it crushes you at first, and then you realize it's just not going to be for everybody. Right? And you know, nothing ever. Right? It's difficult though, once you've put so much effort into something for someone to go camp ill. And you're like, wait, no, no, no, no, no, I'm getting I got married a guy, okay. Like, you know, and the same thing. You know, somebody will post a, a graph, they clearly don't understand a lot of what they're doing. Right? I'm like, I think if you listen to these three episodes that would clarify it. And sometimes every once in a while someone will respond. I don't have time for that. And I'm like, I don't know what you want me to do then like like, right, like I already gave the world thing. This is it? Yeah. You know, like, if you want to go use it if you don't want it. I don't know what to do for you. Like, right, like, I can't, I can't come to your house. Although, right. Those are times where you think like, I bet I could wish I could roll up to somebody's house and just like help. And then like, if I could just get an hour with them. Like maybe if we get the 10 million downloads, I'll give myself away that can't be leaked. We'll do a raffle. Yeah, I actually tried to do that once for one of the sponsors. Oh, and I and the legal aspect of it did not like the idea. So Gotcha. Interesting. Yeah, it didn't work out. But I had that idea. I'll tell you off that I have so many, like, thoughts that I don't get to share on here. But if you can, can you hold on for a second? After we say goodbye? I'd like to ask you. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think people are pissed right now that they're not going to hear what the next question? Yeah, they're like, Wait a second. Guess what, everybody? Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Kelsey Duman 1:19:12
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, of course.

Scott Benner 1:19:20
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you've enjoyed this podcast or any of the other ones, and you'd like to say thank you, it's super easy to do that. You can just go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey.

Alright guys, there's not gonna be the high jinks at the end here. I'm completely beat. I just got done interviewing JC Petrovac and Trang Lai, from Omni pod. They announced the FDA clearance of the Omni pod five right on the Juicebox Podcast. And I'm beat from that still was very exciting. Oh, it's in Episode 621. Right before this if you're interested, because yeah, I mean, that thing. Everybody's been waiting for the on the pod five. The FDA just said go. So here we go. There are tons of details in that episode, go check it out. I'm super excited for Arden to try on the pod five. I am quite certain many of you are as well. Actually, I have a link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box five, if you want to get on the list. If the interests list, they're keeping a list of people who are interested because there's going to be a limited market release for the next. I don't know how long. They didn't say exactly. But it's again in the episode. I'm getting away from myself here. Anyway, if you want to let the good people at on the pod know you're interested in the Omni pod five, their new algorithm based insulin pump. Go to Omni pod.com forward slash juice box five. It's just the number five usually you guys go to alibaba.com forward slash juice box. Right now if you want to ask about that. It's juice box five. Honestly, I think my other Link gets there too. I'll look real quick. Like I said there wasn't going to be hygienic sit down on the pod.com. Forward slash juicebox. No five. scrolling, scrolling, go to page two have to scroll. No, that's not it. Huh, interesting. Get started. No. I guess you need the five. For now. I'm going to talk to somebody get it all put on one page for you. For now. On the pod.com juicebox five, go get on the list. Tell them like I'm interested. The interested list. I'm sure there's another name for it. But that escapes me right now. Anyway. Let me button this up. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. I did it. We're done. I gotta I gotta go to bed.