#1132 CA to NYC

Shannon has type 1 diabetes and is becoming a mental health counselor.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1132 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Shannon is 36 years old she was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 21. And right now she's in her third year of grad school to be a mental health counselor. Today we're going to talk about a lot her upbringing where things went wrong with her type one, diabetes, and so much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you use my link drink ag one.com forward slash juice box you'll get a free year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order of ag one. And you'll save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juice box at checkout. If you're looking for support and community, find the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group and become a member then it'll just be you and 45,000 of your closest friends. And don't forget to check out the Pro Tip series and the ball beginning series at juicebox podcast.com.

US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years, you can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits check it get started today with us med. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom makers of the Dexcom G seven ng six continuous glucose monitoring systems. dexcom.com/juicebox.

Shannon 2:09
So I'm Shannon, I got diagnosed with type one diabetes when I was 21 years old, which was 15 years ago. I live in New York City. But I'm originally from California. I am going to grad school, and I work at a cafe. And I have three cats, and I have about 200 plans. And that's pretty much it to start off.

Scott Benner 2:36
Oh, wait a minute. You were how old you're diagnosed. I was 21. And that was 15 years ago. Yep. But you're right, but you're in grad

Shannon 2:46
school. But I'm in grad school as an old lady. Yes.

Scott Benner 2:50
How did that happen?

Shannon 2:53
Well, so I originally went to college, straight out of high school. As per my parents wishes, unfortunately, they didn't require that I study something useful. So I, I studied photography, I became a photo journalist for many, many years on like a freelance basis, which this was quite a while ago. So I, at the time, there was no Affordable Care Act, there was not really options for freelancers as far as like health insurance goes. So that was a whole situation. And I always kinda, it's a hustle out there when you're when you're trying to find freelance work. And so I always kind of coupled my photography stuff with with other random jobs like really random stuff. Yeah, so I've, I've kind of just been floating around in that world for a long time. In 2020, when the pandemic hit, I lost the majority of my work because that was my my photography stuff. It was a lot of like events and that sort of thing, which, of course dropped off during the pandemic. And I had been ready for a long time to kind of start something else go in a different direction. So I was just sitting there one day locked down in my house and decided to start taking like free online courses, took one in sociology took a few like psychology ones that this is interesting, and ended up applying for grad school to do counseling, and didn't get it in the first time. My background, you know, is in Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's not a requirement that you have to have an undergrad background for this particular program. You don't have to have an undergrad background in psychology or or, or social services or anything like that. They actually kind of pride themselves in having like an eclectic group of people with All sorts of different backgrounds. But nonetheless, I did not make it in. But my very supportive partner, he urged me to apply again. And I got in. And yeah, so I'm going to be starting my third year, third and final year of program. I've been sort of part time throughout. And yeah, I doing like an internship as part of my fieldwork requirements. And by this time, next year, I will hopefully be working out in the field as a, as a mental health counselor,

Scott Benner 5:33
for you. Well, that's really wonderful. Thank you. You're one of the people who actually like we all were like, hey, while we're locked down, you know what I should do? I'll learn you actually did it?

Shannon 5:43
Well, it had been a long time coming. It had been, as I said, I always had to pick up additional work. And I was, for a long time to my my family has a construction business. And so very generously they, for several years, as I was building up my photography, career, they, they let me work for their construction business remotely, which was a very flexible and easy source of income. So I feel very privileged to have had that opportunity. But it just was not, not something I'm interested in at all. And so for many, many years, I was like, I got it. I got to find an escape and go do something else. So the pandemic was sort of an excuse to do that.

Scott Benner 6:31
Yeah, no kidding. Listen, while you were doing that, I was seeing if I could watch all seven seasons of New Girl. So

Shannon 6:37
did you do it?

Scott Benner 6:38
I did. Very successful.

Shannon 6:40
Yeah. Nice. I watched my very fair share of Netflix as well. So or what's new girl on set on Hulu?

Scott Benner 6:50
It was on Netflix. It just moved to Hulu.

Shannon 6:52
Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, I go through binge watching of shows too, especially this summer. I towards the end of that school year, I was getting pretty burnt out. And then I had to take summer class, which ended about a month ago. And since then, I think I've watched like, five full series on Netflix and other streaming services. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:15
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Shannon 10:10
I was not no. So how do I begin with that? It's kind of a, it's kind of a show. Sorry, you're gonna have to bleep that out. But when I was, let's see, when I was diagnosed, I was 21. This was in 2008. And the, at the time, you could be on your parent's insurance, I think a tool you're 23. So I was good for a couple of years, I was sort of finishing out school and I, but I had this impending knowledge that once I graduated, I was gonna have to like find a job with Ben Fitz. And so right then, like, I think it was 2010. And don't quote me on this politics is not my strong point. But Obamacare came on to the scene. And he extended it from age 23 to 26. That you can stay on your parent's insurance. That's the way it still is, right? Yeah, I

Scott Benner 11:13
think so. Yes. Okay. So

Shannon 11:15
I stayed on my parent's insurance till I was 26, which gave me more of a buffer. So I just decided to kind of keep screwing off. And I decided I was going to do something adventurous and fun. So I moved to New York City, all the while, you know, still getting photography gigs, but still also working mostly food service jobs as a supplemental income. Before I knew it, I was 26. And about one month after I turned 26, so I stayed on COBRA for like, I think it was a month or two, my parents generously paid for that, or helped me pay for it. I can't remember exactly. They paid for COBRA. And then the Affordable Care Act was like fully onto the scene. And you could finally apply for health insurance with a pre existing condition just to get an individual plan. So I was able to do that it really sucked in the beginning because not many providers were interested in accepting this new weird insurance. That was, you know, through the state. So I had really, really slim pickings as far as doctors went, which was sort of my norm anyway, I was not great. As far as keeping a regular endocrinologist on on board. And so I kind of just wanted to get my prescriptions and that's all I cared about. So So

Scott Benner 12:45
sure, yeah, so hold on. So you sound like, like a, what's the word I'm looking for is a vagabond? What is it? Like? What, why? What happened? What is it just your personality, like the kind of jumping around and like, you know, they made you go to college, but you went for photography? Like, what is all that? Do you have brothers and sisters? I

Shannon 13:06
have two younger sisters. Yeah. So I'm the oldest, my we're all two years apart. So my, my young, my middle sister is two years younger than me. And then the other ones, two years younger than her, okay. Growing up the same way. I've got one sister that's a drummer, in band. And then I got another sister who dabbles in comedy and writing and bartending. And she's also a mother of two incredible kids. She's an amazing mother. So we're an interesting bunch.

Scott Benner 13:38
Hold on a second, where were the parents real successful in the in the construction?

Shannon 13:43
So yeah, what's interesting about my parents is that neither of them really. My dad didn't even graduate high school. Sorry, dad that I'm telling the world that but he he'd met my mom when he was in his senior year of high school she was as well and he was just all so wrapped up in that that he stopped going to class and didn't get like one final credit to graduate. Wow. So So

Scott Benner 14:06
what's your mom going on? What did you

Shannon 14:11
Oh, she like a cute little five foot two. You know? She was like 95 pounds at the time adorable.

Scott Benner 14:19
I'm getting the picture now. It's coming together.

Shannon 14:22
Very, very smart and witty woman so he was yeah, he was in love. Hey,

Scott Benner 14:28
certainly was he's like I forget about everything else. Doesn't matter. Nothing. So your parents have kind of a free lifestyle feeling like a free mindset as well. No.

Shannon 14:40
So what's what's weird is that they so they both like my my dad had a connection in the in the construction industry. And he's a he's a smart guy. He just is he just a naturally smart person. He moved his way up and my mom same thing. She's really like financial oriented, like, she's not a CPA, but she's done a lot of bookkeeping and accounting and her life and talks to me about all the stuff that I could really care less about. But she just loves thing all things money, and they ended up so we lived in Los Angeles at the time, after they'd had a couple of kids, the earthquake of 1994 hit and we were like at the epicenter. And our neighbor, our surrounding neighborhood was like depleted. We lived in a van for like several months, and then kind of upgraded to a motorhome that somebody loaned us. And in this haste, they put together a their own construction company to fix up the rebuilds. Yeah, the rebuilds, okay. And it you know, they're like I said, they're, they're very, they're kind of like scrappy, but very innovative people, and they just made it work. Do

Scott Benner 15:59
they make out well, in the rebuilds, and you grow up in a house that's financially comfortable?

Shannon 16:04
financially comfortable? Yes. Like, especially looking back, because they used to kind of complain about money, they used to fight about money, that kind of typical thing, it was a stressor for them. But when I think about my own life now, and how little I have compared to them, when they were my age, it's, you know, it's very generally rational thing. I'm, I'm like hardcore in the middle of, I couldn't be more millennial, you know. And they're hardcore boomers. And they really, they had a lot they owned houses, cars, you know, they had savings, all of that stuff. And they were trying so hard to instill that in us. I can't even tell you, Scott, what our allowance system was like, and what are we had chore charts, we had everything. And they were really trying hard didn't steal this. Like

Scott Benner 17:01
they got a drummer, a comedian and a photographer. I was wrong. I'm just trying to figure out how that happened. Like, like, my first thought my first thought was that maybe your parents just had a bunch of money, but they grew up kind of broke so that they were kind of in the middle with the way they parented and wanted you to have like a carefree lifestyle. But it sounds like that's not the case. It sounds like they tried really hard to get you to do that. And none of you took to it.

Shannon 17:27
Yeah, they did. They tried really hard. But I think it was an interesting combination of they wanted us to be disciplined people they wanted us to like be on the straight and narrow. But they at the same time they wanted to afford us what some options and opportunities that they didn't have. You know, it's kind of kind of typical, like do they did grow up? Both of them were the babies of huge families. Pretty much got ignored. They were just latchkey kids, a lot of divorces have happening. All sorts of stuff. Yeah, a lot, a lot of tragic stuff, too. And I think they just wanted us to have they did want us to have a carefree life. And growing up, I was very, very obsessed with playing soccer. And they told me from the beginning, like, Yeah, you should and could be a professional soccer player. And I believed it. And it was all about follow your dreams. And I did for awhile, and I was on this path of playing. I mean, you know about the stuff with your son, but I was on this path of playing collegiate soccer. I had coaches, you know, coming out to watch me and that sort of thing. And then I and then I quit mid season, right before I was supposed to go to college. Yeah, I just had enough.

Scott Benner 18:48
You just had enough of soccer. Okay, how old? were you when you were like, That's enough of that? Like 17? Well,

Shannon 18:56
yeah, it was sort of, it wasn't that I didn't like the sport. I loved it. I don't know if I could play it now. But it was more so than this. Maybe this happens with with baseball too. But there's just a lot of politics, a lot of weird stuff with the parents that are involved in these clubs, sports, and people get mean, the girls I was playing with got mean, and it was more of like the social act side of it that I was just very burnout on Sure. You know, round 1718 Like those years, my teenage years were not great for me. So that Yeah, I think that kind of came out of that.

Scott Benner 19:37
Okay, your teenage years. Were great for you why?

Shannon 19:41
So we lived in Southern California and moved up to northern California when I was starting middle school. I know it sounds it's like same state but it's it's worlds away. Yeah. You know, truly, like almost 600 miles away and I knew nobody and I'm starting this new school and I just became you know, I was So, I came from a situation down in Los Angeles where I had 40 cousins that were, we would get together like every other weekend, we'd have family gatherings. It was very tight knit, and my parents kind of just took us away from all of that. And

Scott Benner 20:20
you're starting over.

Shannon 20:23
It was starting over. And I was incredibly self conscious. I didn't know what to do. I was I was very lost. And I you know, I was trying to make friends. And it was just a struggle. And in the kids were so mean, like, so mean. So bullying, not to like dive in too deep here, but like, a lot of like, sexual harassment was going on with the boys from kids your age from the kid? Oh, yeah. Okay, bad, really bad. And that carried into high school. And, you know, I just kind of stuck my head in the sand and just all I cared about was soccer. I never once went to a party, I didn't have a boyfriend, none of that stuff. So it was kind of weird.

Scott Benner 21:10
No kidding. All right.

Shannon 21:14
So I don't know if I'm painting a picture of like, how? Yeah, it's funny, too, because my partner now he wonders about this. He's like, how did you come from this family where your parents are, so they're so like, financial oriented, and they're very by the book with a lot of things. And then all of you and your sisters are so just like, doing whatever you want? And like not thinking of the consequence

Scott Benner 21:43
is how do you get through? So this is interesting to me. How do you get through? How do you get through life? Like that? Like, do you? Is it Are you very focused on now and not so much future issues? Like how do you like, I'm, I'm like doing the math. I'm, like, 16 years older than you, right? Okay. I get up every day, in a slight panic, that I can afford things, and that my kids and that my kids won't be okay. And that I won't be okay. And that I'll end up in a home where somebody who doesn't care about me, lets me sit in my own pool for two days. Do you not worry about any of that stuff?

Shannon 22:23
No. And it's so interesting that we're talking about this because it has been a topic lately. And it's something that in my grad school program that we talk about a lot like recognizing our own story, our background story, where we come from, and like the privileges that we've enjoyed, or haven't enjoyed. And I think what is going on here, Scott is that I'm a very privileged person. I think it's just, I never had to worry about that my parents, and those like 40 cousins and aunts and uncles and grandma, and they love us so much. And they would do anything for us. And I That's the world I've always existed in I've never had to really think like, oh, wow, like, maybe somebody won't take care of me. And not to say like, I work hard. I do. But it's I don't have that, that impending. Like, oh, gosh, what if I don't have the money for this? What

Scott Benner 23:24
is there a nice way to say is, is there a big pile of earthquake money somewhere that you feel like will be yours one day? Well,

Shannon 23:32
earthquake money? Um, yeah, I mean, they've built up this business. It's, it's become very, like, the clients that they have. Now, I'm not gonna start listening to clients, but like, they have these clients that are very big global names. I'm just kidding. No, not like individuals. But yeah, like brand names, that household brand names, you know, there's

Scott Benner 23:59
an expectation that there'll be money to divvy up when mom and dad shuffle off the mortar call. Yes,

Shannon 24:05
but at the same time, I don't think I don't even think about that.

Scott Benner 24:09
I wouldn't think about that. If it was happening. I'd be like, what if it was happening, right? Yeah. What is your fear this and just piss it all away? They're just like, You know what, we realize we did you a disservice? Ah,

Shannon 24:22
yeah, they they might I think they did realize it at a certain point. And I know Scott, you've been kind of he's become an empty nester over the last year or two. And my parents went through that, I guess, about 10 years ago. Yeah. When we all finally left and we didn't just leave we like left left, like other states across the country see a Christmas. Yeah. And they had, I mean, they had a really, really, really hard time with that. It wasn't pretty. And I don't know why I was just talking about that, but they I think it I think they sort of realized, like, they kind of something in their parenting made us feel like, we could just do that. And it would be okay. And so I think they they've taken a step back and realize like, oh, maybe we made a couple of interesting choices along the way that made our kids turn out like this and leave us.

Scott Benner 25:23
You can do anything, including abandoned us. Pretty much being like, using hindsight, China as an example, because you brought it up. Could you really have been a professional soccer player?

Shannon 25:37
I think actually, I could have. Okay, I did that. Maybe that's just a product of you know, no, I

Scott Benner 25:43
mean, I believe that you believe it. But I'm wondering what I want to know is what I want to know is, like, Did you run a substantial 60? yard dash? Are you like, nothing but muscle and, and fit? And like, like real? I was worried then. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, you know, that professional female soccer players didn't make anything 15 years ago, right? Like, oh, I'm

Shannon 26:10
well aware, because my, I mean, we, we were so ingrained into this soccer culture. Like my parents, we would take, I feel like I brought up my parents 1000 times now. But they would take us to these collegiate games nearby, we'd watch these players go from the college world up to the professional world. And there was a, there was a woman's league that was like born at that time. And after I think, I don't know, a couple of short years, it folded. But when they were in, you know, starting out and everything, we would go to all these games, we were like, very invested. And yes, like, I was picked regionally to be on what they call, I think it was for the state, the Olympic development program. So like, I was doing pretty well, in the sport, and very small, very fast. I wasn't like, you know, big and muscley. But I was just I was quick. And I was a smart player. But none of that I don't think I could do now.

Scott Benner 27:14
Yeah, I mean, I'm doing my best to look here. And like top tier, female soccer players right now are making a quarter of a million dollars a year, but most of them make like 40 to $80,000, I think, Oh,

Shannon 27:25
yeah. But there again, Scott, I wasn't thinking about money. I was thinking about. I don't know what, yeah, I don't think about money.

Scott Benner 27:33
So I get the idea. I'm not coming down on your parents, either. I just find this really interesting plus your plus what you're going to school for? Let me be honest, Shannon, I find that a lot of people who like who go into like psychotherapy as a profession, really are interested in figuring out themselves themselves.

Shannon 27:51
Oh, yeah, absolutely. This whole thing has been a therapeutic invention for me. If

Scott Benner 27:56
you end up helping somebody else, that'll be a bonus. So but I get I get the idea behind telling your kids like you can do anything, but you really believed it to a level that might not have been completely healthy. Yeah, you you believe in yourself too much is what I think.

Shannon 28:21
Yeah, since in some ways, I guess they Yeah, we were put on a bit of a pedestal I think, you know. Yeah. And it's been an interesting journey to break away from that,

Scott Benner 28:31
right. As an example, right. I'll use myself as an example for a second. I am aware, I will never say it on this podcast. I am aware of what my IQ is. Okay. And it's impressive. Okay, but I can't do simple math. Like I'm like, I can't learn algebra. I can't, I can't remember if if my foots wrapped up right now, if I unwrapped my foot and tried to rewrap it, I wouldn't be able to remember how it came off. But yeah, not even kidding. Okay. And, and I started with literally nothing, and thought that's what my life would be. But I knew in my head, it didn't need to be I was like, I know I can achieve more than where I am right now. But, and every time I made a leap, I set my mind to something and I successfully move towards it. But I never celebrated it. I never went Yes. See that. I'm smart. I can do this. I'm always telling myself. You're going to lose. Like who's going to go bad. You have to keep trying. And you are like everything's gonna be fine. I mean, I'm not saying one's right or wrong. It's just really interesting. You don't I mean, it's

Shannon 29:45
very interesting. And it's it's so interesting to me that this was like the route that we ended up taking this conversation because I think you like zeroed in on it. This whole approach to life has had a huge effect on how I approach my diabetes. I was wondering, go ahead. Okay, so I was 21, when I was diagnosed, I was finishing up school. And I was kind of coming into this thing where I wanted to be independent and live my own life. And it's kind of an awkward age to be diagnosed because I technically I had been back, living at home, especially like in the summers and stuff when I was home from school. But it wasn't enough for my parents to like, they weren't going to help me or take care of me with my, with my management of type one diabetes. And that's that I was okay with that. I wanted that. Because I wanted everybody to believe that I that everything was perfectly fine. And when I say everybody, Scott, I mean, the very few people that I actually let know, I had diabetes. I was so, so afraid. And still, quite honestly, I still am about people knowing I had diabetes, because I was afraid that they would say all the wrong things, asked me all the wrong questions, and dealt me in certain ways. And I just wanted to believe in myself, and believe that I could do it. And I did crazy things to avoid anyone knowing about my diabetes, to making sure I was the best at diabetes. And it wore on me for like, a long time. This was, I mean, this was kind of my mode of operation. Had I come on podcast five years ago, which is when I started listening, I would have just sat there and probably tried to convince you about how good I am at diabetes, how I know everything. And I, in the last few years, certainly listening to the podcast has helped. The school program has helped me a lot, but I've just been trying to let go of that idea that I have to be the best at diabetes that I have to I it's a it's a hot mess. I hate it's hard. It's really hard every day and I the fact that I can actually admit that is like a huge step for

Scott Benner 32:22
me. If you were you really good at it, or were you just telling yourself you were good at it.

Shannon 32:29
So I was pretty good. Okay, I What did that mean? So I was MDI until I started listening to the podcast Dexcom and Omnipod. Scott made me believe in us. So that's what I use now, for the sponsors that are listening. But I was was MDI for the first 10 years of having type one diabetes, but it was like, I went through a lot of test strips, I was trying to act like my own CGM. Before I even knew anything about CGM. I was testing several times an hour, we're talking like 2030 times a day. I was my agencies were, you know, when I was diagnosed, I think I was around 10. That's the only number I remember ever being outside of the sixes. So I was you know, I was higher sixes for the MDA time. Sorry, MDI time, so it was like 6.7 and lower, I think, okay, throughout all that. When I was first diagnosed, I, so this was in like, 2008. So the internet was like a very different place. I didn't know any other type ones in my like, real life, and there wasn't like this online, like diabetes community. But I did a search and I ended up finding this girl who she was like, very, she was very pretty. She She seemed like she had it all together. She was very fit. And she was preaching this idea. She was type one diabetic, that she could make it so that she didn't have to take any long acting insulin. Okay. And I this was like, within the first few months of being diagnosed, I was probably still honeymooning. And I was like, very regimented about what I was eating and everything. I was like, Oh, well, yeah, I can do that, too. I even like, contacted this girl we met up at a certain point. She was like my idol. And I was like, on this quest to, like, prove to myself that I didn't need long acting insulin. And I was down to taking I think, like five units a day or something like that. For reference, I take like, depends on the point in my cycle that I'm at, but I I'm usually like 3040 units a day now. So I was just like Like I would, I was also doing my own Vagabond thing and trying to trying to, I don't know, survive in my own little way. And I would, I didn't want to, like ask my parents for money. So when I couldn't like it and I was really bad at just like, doing basic things like going to the pharmacy. So one time I was leaving for a trip, and I was gonna go on some road trip, going to visit a cousin, who had just had twins, and I was gonna kind of like, help her with the babies and stuff. And I realized that I didn't have I hardly had any insulin left in my fridge to take on this trip. And I was like, Oh, well, it's fine. Like, I'll just, I'll just like not eat any carbs. It's gonna be great. And I I get there, this is my whole plan. We go out to lunch. I have a artichoke, which I thought was going to be like carb free or something. And it wasn't and my blood sugar is shooting up. So I kind of told my cousin what I was doing. And she's like, are you insane? And she took me straight to the pharmacy. I remember we were standing we were there for so long. We had to we found this charger, this wall charger, or like a plug up on the wall where we had to plug in our phones because we were calling my insurance company like for you know and being on hold for like an hour as are standing there in the pharmacy. Anyway, she she ends up getting me the insulin. And I stopped trying to eat low carb and ration my insulin and whatever. So like I was doing weird stuff.

Scott Benner 36:40
Let me tell you something while I move around. So two things an artichoke a medium artichoke has 13 grams of carbs. And I have to put my foot up now prescribed by a doctor. So you're gonna hear some noise. Sorry about that. Okay, I know, I'm not allowed to sit that long with my so hold on this is I've never done this podcast this way before. Oh, okay, now my foots on my desk. And the microphones on a boom, if I fall asleep. It's not you. I'm just very, very laid back right now. Okay. I'd like to, like, bring something up. So the other day, I was on the social media. And I saw a person with type one diabetes, who I know makes a living selling there, I'm making air quotes, selling their coaching to other people. This person is in incredibly good shape. And I mean, visually, you look at them and think, I wish even just my leg look like that. You know, like, that's the kind of like, amazing health they appear to peer. And then I, it made me scroll through their feed. And I saw their blood sugars that just bounce up and down all day long. They're high and they're low, and they're high, and they're low, but they look terrific. And I thought, wow, they're selling that knowledge to people like selling Yeah, selling it to them. And, and you got they were posting their numbers. Yeah, yeah, the graph comes up, look at my graph. I'm like, Wait, what 250 70 360, like up and down and up and down on my end. But what I realized is that there are plenty of people who look at that. It's what you said to me what you said a minute ago, about that you found an attractive person, an attractive person with diabetes. And I thought that's what this is, like, people don't know what they don't know. And so if this person's graph doesn't deter people, they're doing business. They are young, younger people are going to them and getting diabetes advice from them. And then they're paying for it. And on top of all that, it's it's not lost on me that a lot of people might have been in the situation you found yourself in. Like, I just need something like if we could make fun of the fact that you were going to leave your house without insulin. Of course, that's ridic I love that. You're just like, I'm so carefree. But I'm gonna go see the baby now. I love it. Yeah, you don't think yourself like I need insulin to do that.

Shannon 39:19
No, I mean, I did I I'm really also very hard on myself. So I'm kicking myself. I'm like, God, like, what's my deal? I'm an adult. I should I should have gotten gotten that insulin but no, no, no, no, we're gonna fix this in some weird way not not fix it in the right way where I just postpone the trip a little and it's all gonna work fine and all

Scott Benner 39:39
that. It's all gonna work out. You think? Yeah. Yeah. But you feel that way about everything.

Shannon 39:45
I guess I do. Yeah.

Scott Benner 39:46
Here's the question. Does everything always work out? Absolutely not. Okay, sorry, that made me laugh.

Shannon 39:59
Um, I don't. So while it seems like you know, I had this this upbringing that was quite a privilege and sheltered. I have since left that and created my own life and in New York City of all places. So, there are things that happened to me that are very, very serious and very, like, I've had major traumatic life events happened to me, and will you not like I'm living in some dream world anymore?

Scott Benner 40:33
Will you? Will you share those, like something that changed your perspective?

Shannon 40:37
Well, let's see. I mean, first, we can think, you know, the, the type one diabetes happening was a huge shock to my existence. You know, that was one of the first things that happened, where I was kind of shook out of my, my typical way of thinking, I guess. I it's still like I was sort of illustrating like, it still sort of carried over into that. But as the years went on, and I and I grappled with it very, in a very alone type of way, like I really isolated myself, because of the fact that I didn't want anyone to know how difficult it was. And I didn't want anyone to know, at all, you know, I mean, I, I worked for a, just as one example, I, one of my jobs that I picked up, along the way was being a nanny, and I was a nanny for this family for like two years watching their baby, who, you know, is like one year old. And I never told them the whole time that I had type one diabetes, well, somehow, and like the mom, like worked from home, like, I don't know, how I just like hid this the whole time. And I was like, actively hiding it.

Scott Benner 42:03
Because because people would think that you weren't a lessor somehow, if they knew.

Shannon 42:09
Yes, yes. Like, I really have a problem with that. And that's been kind of the catalyst to, you know, eventually, as I, as I make this very, you know, different career change, I'm still figuring out what it is exactly I want to do. But I hope to work with individuals who are like living with chronic illness. Because I think I have this like understanding of what it's like to just be ashamed of it to be isolated with it into not know how to like, integrate it into your life in a healthy way.

Scott Benner 42:53
Can I make sense? I have a question. Yeah. So if you were a practicing person right now, I mean, you're three years into a master's degree. So you're pretty far you're pretty far along getting there. Yeah. And you heard yourself talking? What would you say? What would you say to yourself?

Shannon 43:08
It's a good question. And I asked myself that a lot. What I've learned a lot throughout the program is not so much like, like, it's going to be my job to give myself or anybody else, like, straight up advice, right? I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to. I'm not I'm barely even going to tell you what I think. But it's more of a situation where it's my job to, to ask questions and get, get that person to kind of get myself to look a little more introspectively and figure out where these feelings are coming from, you know. And there's different approaches, of course, different, different theories, but mine is sort of stemming a little bit into psychoanalysis and figuring out like, what from your past is, and what patterns have you been adopting your whole life that has led you to this way of being now?

Scott Benner 44:11
Right? Well, it's why I asked you if you thought you were really an excellent soccer player or not, because, you know, that idea that being told that everything is okay, or everything's fantastic. And you actually knowing that it's not, that's the difference. Right? Like, like, Yeah, especially when you're a kid, like, you can't blow smoke up people's faces, especially children, because they're not unaware. And, and you telling them, like, my son has this way of like, when we're being like, supportive of my son, he will stop sometimes and say, Hey, are you just saying that because you're my dad, or is this real? Or is this real? And and that's when I know that he doesn't know. Yeah, because I've also said like uplifting things to him that he's looked back at me like Dude, that's not true. And And you know, and that's when you're as a parent just trying to be like, oh god, they're in a bad spot right now, like, let me just be positive. And then you realize I did, at least as you got older, like, there's no real value in that, like you're lying, what you're doing is you're lying to them, you're telling them a lie, to save them from feeling bad, when the truth is, they need to know the truth, or they're going to like, barking up the wrong tree over and over, over and over again, you know, with this idea that everything is possible, and that they are the top of whatever pile they're going to try to climb on top of, and that nothing's going to stop them. I don't think things should stop you. I do think at some point you, you should be able to assess the situation and go, Hey, this is not going well. You know, like, maybe this isn't my thing. Yeah, so that was my question. Like you, you know, the truth? Does it, it doesn't help to hear an alternative idea, like so there's a difference between honesty and motivation, I guess. I don't know what I'm saying. I think you're Yeah, I don't I mean, I think motivation needs to be rooted in, in truth. And

Shannon 46:18
honesty. Yeah. And I think that's why I tend to cringe. And I don't want to make any anyone sad or self conscious, because I see this a lot, you know, on the Facebook page, everything where it's like, oh, diabetes cannot stop my child from doing anything. They're a warrior. I appreciate the sentiment, I guess. And I understand, like, parents are in a really tough spot. But I think like, that's the sort of, and there was an episode with Erika that was so great. And actually, like, transcribed it and posted it about, she talks about, you know, that sort of family culture of like, we can do anything we want, and nothing's gonna stop us. It can end up backfiring. You know, yeah. What did you talk about? Said, so you said something funny about grit, essentially, like, putting so much emphasis on this, this idea of grit and like, Oh, I'm gonna push through, and not stopping to just maybe feel the hard feelings and feel like, well, you know, maybe today, I can't do it all. Like, I feel like, my blood sugar has been bouncing up and down for days, I need to, I just need to stop like I I have to take a break. And how that is a, that takes a different kind of strength in a way. And I think that's really important for people to, to know, because I think I was, you know, I was brought up with that idea around other things. It wasn't diabetes, because I wasn't a kid with diabetes, but I was brought up with that mindset in general. And then I applied it to diabetes, and it and I still sort of like, I've gotten comments from like, my mom and stuff that are sort of like I was I was at their house a couple of months ago, just visiting with them. And I was really open and honest about how much I have been struggling lately, with some of my diabetes technology and my numbers and how I've really had a hard time exercising with diabetes, you know, all this stuff, stuff that I never would have shared before, because I didn't want anyone to think that I wasn't doing well. And God bless her. But her response was, Well, you know, because I ended with, yeah, it basically really sucks. And she's like, well, but there again, it could be something way worse. Yeah. And I just, I was sort of stopped in my tracks. I didn't know what to say at that point,

Scott Benner 49:09
right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. I could have had my arm ripped off by a tiger Zoo. But that doesn't make what I just said any less impactful on my life.

Shannon 49:20
Yeah, and you know, you've had several people on the show who have multiple health concerns, and you've asked a question like, Okay, if you could, if you can take one of them away, what would it be? And so many people have said, the diabetes, like, because it really, it's it is a lot harder than anyone would ever imagine. I think,

Scott Benner 49:43
you know, what's interesting shadow is that, if you were to if you would have just pose that as a question to me, Scott, you've asked a lot of people with multiple health conditions, which one would they take away? I would have told you that it's my recollection that people don't choose their diabetes. Oh really what moreover, that they don't, they never choose what I think they're going to choose. That's the and so I wonder how much of that is your interpretation of it true, like the diabetes is something you would take away, obviously. And so when you hear people say that you agree with them, and when you don't hear people say that, I wonder how it hits you differently. I mean, you know, and I could be wrong, too. But I'm so from my personal perspective, I'm never right. Like, I always think to myself, they're gonna say this. And then they say, Oh, how about that I misunderstand how they experience these things. Like, like, even after talking to them, like they're first certain gonna say, you know, and then they don't, or sometimes they do, but like, I'm always shocked by it. It's just, it's fascinating. Like, it really is. But you're so your mom doesn't? Well, she doesn't get it. But you were also 21 When you were diagnosed, right?

Shannon 50:56
Correct. Yeah. And I, and she's done. She's supported me in a lot of other ways, but I think in that in that piece of like, truly understanding, and she might even understand, but I think it's difficult for her to mine. I think it's difficult for her to accept that I am having a hard time. So I think that was that comment might have mostly been for

Scott Benner 51:26
herself. Yeah, she was talking to her side is waiting for you to say that she's off. She's like, Oh, my God, my daughter struggling with this thing that I don't know how to help her with that we can't make go away. I need to feel better about this. At least you don't have cancer. There. Yeah. Cuz that's what she that's what everybody means when they say that, by the way.

Shannon 51:45
But pretty much yeah.

Scott Benner 51:47
It's a Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Are you close with your mom? You're not Yeah.

Shannon 51:55
So sort of, as I explained, growing up, we were like this, this tight knit family. With the extended family included, then when we moved away, it was kind of like, our immediate family became even even closer. And it was a little bit of this sort of like, in group out group sort of thing. Where it was like we we knew, we knew the way we saw the world. And we had a hard time understanding how other people saw the world, I think, based on like that, as the foundation, we were, we've were and are close. I have since it's it all started around the time that I was diagnosed. Two weeks after I was diagnosed, I was set to go spend a summer, leaving the country for the first time, like, I'd never left the country. And I was gonna go to Europe for a couple of months. And I did it, and two weeks into diagnosis, and that sort of combination of things, like set me off in a bit of a different direction. Where I kind of realized, like, oh, that in group that I was living in for so long, is not really reality. There's there's hard things that happen. There's diseases that happen. There's a whole world that lives differently than we live. And I sort of took that and run with ran with it. And I've since chosen a very interesting lifestyle for myself. I guess it's very different than my mom and dad's. And because of that we have certainly grown apart.

Scott Benner 53:38
Oh, I can't figure out what you're talking about. Is it? Is it? Is that a social theory? Is it not political? You said you're not very political is?

Shannon 53:51
Well, it is a bit political there. I don't know. I'm not even gonna say,

Scott Benner 53:56
but I figured it out. Hold on. They make some money. They still live in Northern California. They're getting older. Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah, I got I figured it out. Good.

Shannon 54:06
So there's there's a pretty big political difference. I have, you know, I live paycheck to paycheck, which sort of now seems like a bit of a choice for me since it's been going on for so long.

Scott Benner 54:19
But you're right, by the way, but yeah.

Shannon 54:23
I mean, hopefully, like next year when I have a real career, that doesn't happen. But

Scott Benner 54:28
did you just figure that out? Or did you know that already?

Shannon 54:32
I think I think this conversation has been enlightening, for sure.

Scott Benner 54:37
Be honest, I could get through that art. That grad thing for the counseling, right? Oh, yeah, I'm good at this. Yeah, I absolutely.

Shannon 54:45
Absolutely. I was like fully hoping this would be a good therapy session with Scott.

Scott Benner 54:52
I'm gonna start charging people $40 As the copay.

Shannon 54:55
You should, you should no more than that.

Scott Benner 55:00
It's easy. I can make more than 40. Hold on a second. What do we say? You know what I mean? Like to do like 200? Yeah, hell, what am I doing over here making a pot? I didn't know this. I mean, for me, it feels obvious when people are talking. And I know I'm not always right. But this is this is it? Like, it's, they're not that many different stories, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, like the way people are the way they see the world the way they, you know, like, I mean, we could go back and dig up the, like, the whole thing with your parents being super young and getting together. And then, you know, like, it's just you brought up that they were like the youngest in their families and big families. And, yeah, it all makes sense. And you start making some money. And then you're like, I know what I'm doing. And like, and then you're now you're young, you have some money, you have some kids and you start applying How would I wish people would have treated me when I was a kid. And then they had the financial backing to go headlong into it, which obviously sent the three of you into like a hippie lifestyle where you're just like, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna do I'm great. And I'm gonna go do whatever I want. I'm a drummer. Okay, no one's stopping. You know who, you know who's the drummer? Lars Ehrlich? You know why? Cuz he's wealthy from playing the drums. That means a drummer. Okay, your sister plays drums. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, and I don't know your sister. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, even with photography, like, I mean, were you Annie Leibowitz? No,

Shannon 56:31
but I yeah, I will tell you I had some pretty sweet gigs. Let's just say I've met a lot of celebrities. But no, I mean, what what's weird Scott is that like everyone is always supported me and told me I was good. At and I really, really, really latch on to I am like, deathly afraid of criticism, like it's, and that's, that's why I had my diabetes, all of that. But, but I really super appreciate praise. And I will take it and run with it and make sure that I meet that expectation is that if that makes sense?

Scott Benner 57:13
Well, here, how about this, I will praise you for being a person who is interested in how their mind works. I'm not calling you old, but at 36. for you not to just disappear down this rabbit hole and go, Shannon's terrific. Everything that happens is on purpose. This is the way the world wants it to be for me. I think that's pretty cool that you're still thinking about it. Because I think most people by now would have just put blinders on and just run forward and anybody that didn't raise them or agreed with them would just have been written off as wrong. And I'm wondering why it's okay for me to talk to you this way. Is it because we have that? Because you've been listening to the podcast for so long?

Shannon 57:54
I think so. I was thinking about that leading into it where I was like, oh, yeah, I'm pretty much ready to tell Scott anything like I'm not going to, you know, this is downloaded millions of times. And so your your podcasts, I mean, not mine, but I don't want to tell you things about certain people in my life that are very private, but more for them. Not for me, of course, but yeah, I leading into it. I was like I can tell Scott, anything that I can tell my own personal therapist. And I think it's just because for five years, I've heard your voice. I've heard you respond to other people in a way that it's like realistic and, and fun, but it's not like judgmental.

Scott Benner 58:40
Yeah, well, I don't really care. I don't care about you. Like I don't, I don't. I mean, in the end, it's your life. You don't I mean, like, like, and like we said earlier if your feedback needs to be authentic, and an honest or it's meaningless, but like, but if you would have sat down with your mom and had this conversation, you wouldn't like some of the things I said. Um, where are you past that now?

Shannon 59:08
Oh, no, I'm not past that. Okay. Yeah, no, I don't think I would have liked

Scott Benner 59:13
could you partner get her Could your partner get away with talking to you like this?

Shannon 59:18
We're working on that. Um, it's, it's becoming better. Like I said, this the school program has been therapeutic for me. I've recognized it's like, created a whole new I was already very self aware person but like, it's created a whole new world of self awareness for me that I think I think we're Him and I are Trent and we've been together for 10 years. But we're we're treading into territory that is becoming, you know, more open and honest and pushing me to be more introspective about how different our upbringings are and how and And, and our approach to life is and how so? So certain things? Yes, um, no, I'm very, with most people, I would say, I take very quick offense to most things that are anywhere near critical or treading on that territory.

Scott Benner 1:00:22
All I've learned so far today is that I gotta get my wife to listen to this podcast for five years, and then I can,

Shannon 1:00:28
and then she, she'll open up she listened to me. Oh, my she ever listened to an episode.

Scott Benner 1:00:37
I mean, I don't I probably, I don't know. It's not not a thing we talk about, honestly. Just in case. Hi, Kelly. Oh, my God, you imagine? He doesn't listen to me for sure. I mean, like, she has the same reaction to me that you would have to your mom. I'm like, Hey, I think you should do this should be like, that's not what I'm gonna do. Like, so. But I think that's just, that's everybody. Honestly, you know, we have like tight personal relationships. You're not looking for the person who you know, knows you to say something that you don't want to hear. Right? Because yeah, right. Because if I mean, you have to assume I've been talking to you for an hour. Have I figured you I figured you out pretty well. Right. Pretty

Shannon 1:01:23
well. You zeroed in pretty quick to the whole the whole parent thing, which I wasn't expecting to talk about. But here we are.

Scott Benner 1:01:30
Yeah. Well, and I apologize. I apologize for that. But that seemed like the core of what was happening. Yeah. But my point is, is that after 27 years, you might think I know a couple things about my wife, right? Yeah, but she didn't want to hear that. Because Because, because she's like, Oh, if he says something that that it's biting, I might have to accept it as being honest. And true. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Shannon 1:01:54
and that's the beauty of, of counseling or therapy, I think, is that, and this is obviously not true across the board. But my personal experience was, okay, now I can finally there's like this sort of neutral person, that I don't have all this weird history and baggage with that, I can just tell them and then in sort of, like, same with you, like, I can just tell you things, and it feels so good to just say them out loud. I will tell you also that, like I part of some of that thing that I was talking earlier about having these very real word world experiences is that my my partner is I don't know if I should say it exactly. But

Scott Benner 1:02:39
you don't have to say anything you don't want to share, don't be uncomfortable, please, I'll just

Shannon 1:02:43
say that I've gone to group therapy, where it's, it's like, that was actually the start for me, where I had never gone to individual therapist. But I went to essentially NAR Anon, which I don't know if you're familiar with it. But it's, it's like the same thing as Al Anon. Where it's the families and loved ones of addicts. And, and you go and you talk about you think you're going to talk about the person in your life who has to addict. And that's not what it's about at all. You go in and you talk about yourself, you talk about how you are coping with things and how you want to change, not how you want that person to change. And that was that was huge. For me, that was a light switch just totally flipped in my brain. And I forget why I started talking about this. You asked me something, but oh, I guess talking to people who aren't close to you, like you were saying, like your wife or your mom, talking to these complete strangers, you can tell them everything, and it just feels like a total weight gets lifted off of your shoulders. And that's why I think I became so interested in pursuing a career so that I could hopefully provide that space for other people.

Scott Benner 1:04:15
Yeah, no, I really hope you're able to do that for other people. It's obviously really needed. And I think also such a such a, a clear, clear description of it being the journey, not the destination, you know, because absolutely, I used to listen to these conversations and think, Okay, now we know all this, what do we do about it? But it turns out that the telling of it is what you do about it. It's not like you get to the end and there's a fix, or I mean, sometimes you stopped talking to a person who's bad in your life or you stop acting a certain way but for the most part, it's getting it out that leads you to The answer. It's not. It's not as cut and dry as I think people maybe would would expect without doing it, like, I'm gonna go and this person is gonna give me an answer, and then I'll go home and do the thing, and then it'll be better. And I don't think it works exactly like, no,

Shannon 1:05:15
no, yeah, that's what I was saying earlier, it's not so much about telling people what the solution is, and telling them what they should do and giving advice, it's, it's just continuing to create awareness around it. And, and going, yeah, like you said, kind of going on that that journey, which takes time takes a long time, maybe a lifetime. But and I just want to say, too, that my, my partner is, has been in recovery for a very, very, very long time. Even though that's the case, it's still not easy. There's certain characteristics around addiction that just, you know, tend to carry into other parts of your life. But I do want to say that he is actively working every day to to remain in recovery. And those groups are really special to me. Yeah. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:06:08
that's wonderful. I'm glad you brought it up. So other people, other people can hear about it as well. I mean, yeah, there's a real thing that happens, for example, if you're the child of an alcoholic, like, that's, that's a difficult life to have. You don't realize, and, and, you know, honestly, you're gonna have some sort of a problem from any which way you were brought up, I'm sure like, you know, Leave It to Beaver kid was probably upset. And those people seemed lovely. So you know, that everything. It's not to say that, like your parents, or my parents did something so specifically wrong, that they could have just done differently. It's just who they were. It's how the it's how the soup shakes out. When it's over. Honestly, like, you throw in all the ingredients, and you get what you get. Yeah, it's not like they had an option. And they could have done something else. They only ever could react to the world around them and their situations the way they were going to. Like, that's pretty much it. You don't I mean, I don't know if that's of comfort to people. And I would think it would be you got to be willing not to beat yourself up for it. For me, for you, I'm most worried about your personality and how it relates to your long term health.

Shannon 1:07:24
Like, yeah, so I'm now it's what's weird is that I've always been praised by my doctors about how amazing I do with diabetes, I got this email from my endocrinologist and she's like, I just want to let you know that I work with people all the time, who are really, really struggling. And it's really heartwarming for me to see somebody who's doing so well. So part of that is Scott, me, projecting, trying to convince people that I'm doing so well, but also she does see my numbers. You know, I've had a one season of fives, and I listened to nearly every episode of the podcast, and I'm looping. But it still really sucks. And it's still the the health piece that I would be more worried about is not really so much the diabetes numbers and that sort of thing. It's my attitude, the way I act around my diabetes socially, that I think causes so much stress for me. And that stress is, you know, not great. And I don't know how, I think, again, it's it's a process. And it's getting better, but I still like I like I mentioned, I work in a cafe and I have we have to wear these T shirts, and I get them extra large, so that it covers my Omnipod and my Dexcom on my arms. Because if it did, because, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
What would happen? What would happen if it didn't what it was people saw it?

Shannon 1:09:12
So I have this idea that people are gonna, first of all, I guess one thought is that like in, in food service, customer service, like you interact with a lot of people, and they tend to like, you know, like you were saying, like a lot of people are just the same. They say the same things. Like they will say the same things to me over and over about it. If I gave them the chance, I think they would do that. I also have had the thought like because we have all these like incredible pastries and very high carb, high fat things and I'm like, Well, somebody's gonna see that on me. And they're not going to want to like they're going to like ruin their meal because they're going to think like, oh, now I'm gonna get diabetes for meeting this.

Scott Benner 1:09:54
Does that ever actually happen or is that just the worry?

Shannon 1:09:57
It's never happened?

Scott Benner 1:09:59
No one Other things you worry about that never happened? You mean in life in general? Yeah. What else? What else are you bothering yourself with? It has never actually been a problem

Shannon 1:10:09
that everybody hates me.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
I like you, you seem lovely.

Shannon 1:10:13
Oh, thank you. lightful though,

Scott Benner 1:10:15
I don't know, I'll just relax. We're not at the end yet.

Shannon 1:10:20
Um, let's see. Go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:10:23
You see what I'm saying though? Like, you're just you're making you're making things up to be worried about?

Shannon 1:10:28
Definitely. Yeah. And yeah, I, I have co workers that I, you know, I've been since I've been off school for the summer, I'm now like, every day, like 10 hours. And like, I don't say anything about diabetes the whole time. Like, I have coworkers who like, maybe don't even know I have it. And so that's still like a thing in my life where I don't tell people about it. Because I'm so afraid.

Scott Benner 1:10:52
I don't care if you don't tell them about it. Like, I care about the why you don't tell them about it. Like if you don't tell them because you don't want to tell them. That's fine. If you don't tell them because you're afraid that it's gonna make them feel bad, or they're gonna ask you questions, you don't want to hear like all that stuff, then that's where I worry about it. That makes

Shannon 1:11:12
sense. No, that's that's completely what it is like, I don't I'm afraid of the questions. I'm afraid of what they'll think

Scott Benner 1:11:20
you care what they think. Yes. Why?

Shannon 1:11:25
I don't know. I wish I didn't. And I know, you don't care what people think.

Scott Benner 1:11:30
I mean, not so far. But I make it up and eventually, but yeah, I mean, it's it's not that I don't care what people think, either. I do. Like I, I wouldn't want to be a person who, I don't know, I wouldn't want to be a trash person who people looked at when that's a trash person. Like, I wouldn't want that. But if that was who I was, I wonder if I'd care? Probably not. And so is that a concern? About what? Oh, is that a concern about what they think of me? Or is that a concern about what I want for myself? So do you really care about them? Or do you care about what you really are? And you're afraid that if they say that to you, that's who you are, then is that weird? Yes. Okay,

Shannon 1:12:15
you nailed it. Did

Scott Benner 1:12:16
I? Sorry, you talk a little fast. You too. Yeah. You talk a little faster than Erica, or he gives me more time like because she's slower than I can. My thoughts can come together better. But, but I don't, I don't think anything is generally about what we think it's about. Why would you care about what a random person who works in a cafe, who you're not going to know for five minutes from now thinks about your health? Does that make sense?

Shannon 1:12:44
Yeah. Because what they think, becomes what I am.

Scott Benner 1:12:50
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't think that. That's not That's not true at all. But I get where you get where that comes from, if that's people's interpretation, and that must be what they see. And then perhaps that's what I am. And I don't even know it. But your mom told you, you could be whatever you wanted. Why don't you just be what you want to be? How come how come into one part of your life where that advice would actually help you? You're not? I don't know. I can't believe we got to that.

Shannon 1:13:18
I know. I mean, she's, Oh, wow. So yeah, I go head to

Scott Benner 1:13:27
head. So just take all that off of like, hey, I can be a photographer for the rest of my life, which obviously isn't going to be a thing and apply that to the parts of your life where it would actually help you. Because you have that personality. You just put it in the wrong places.

Shannon 1:13:44
Yeah, that's that's definitely true. I wonder why that is? Yeah, just look, I've gotten better. I've gotten better at this, of this idea of sharing with people, but I'm still a long ways away from being healthy with it. Yeah. Did I pass where the the health piece comes in? Go ahead.

Scott Benner 1:14:12
Did I just bum you out? Or were you just thinking about yourself? Which just happened? Why did my voice change? You got real slow and you almost went in your own head for a minute? Did I make you sad? I didn't mean to No,

Shannon 1:14:25
you didn't make me sad. I was. I knew that. This conversation would be did not difficult, but like real? Yeah. So I wasn't expecting that. I would come out of this. You know, like, totally feeling giggly and happy. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:14:43
but you should. You should though, because we really did, like figure some things out that I think would be helpful for you. But I guess it's putting them in practice. It's the issue.

Shannon 1:14:54
But what about yeah, that's that is the issue. So what do I okay imagine you're me. Now I'm asking you to do what counselors really aren't supposed to do. Imagine you're me, you show up to work. And I will say something I change. Something's got on my loop settings. I don't know what it was, but because I am freaking messing around with that stuff all the time, but about two months ago, I think I changed something with my loop settings that finally eradicated the lows that I was having. And I'm talking like, extreme lows. Like, I have had so many lows, and I to the point where I was just like, in my 15 years diabetes, like I just get used to it. And I did something to where I'm not really having those lows anymore. But imagine you show up to work. And you're 10 minutes into your shift at the cafe and your blood sugar starts going low. Like what do you do?

Scott Benner 1:15:55
I mean, you eat something and take a minute.

Shannon 1:15:58
Right? Do you like explain it to anybody?

Scott Benner 1:16:02
I mean, if it came up and it needs to be explained, then yeah. But like if somebody came up to me and went, Hey, Shannon, what the hell are you doing? We're supposed to be working. I'd say my, my blood sugar is low. I've eaten something and um, I need to wait for a minute until I'm okay.

Shannon 1:16:17
But if you want to do weirded out about you know, maybe they're gonna ask me questions. I don't want to answer.

Scott Benner 1:16:27
Me, are you if I'm you, I see that I do. I'm like, I'm like, Oh, I'm not perfect. My mom told me I was perfect. These people are gonna find out I'm not perfect. I've been living this on a I built this, like, Tower of lies up and it's all gonna fall down on me. And then I'm gonna realize I'm not perfect. And then what happens? Is that about right? Yep, yeah. But then what happens is your blood sugar comes back up, but you still work at the cafe and you're still you? Nothing happens. Yeah, nothing. No, I

Shannon 1:16:59
have. I know. We've been on the call for a long time. But I want to tell a quick story about how I

Scott Benner 1:17:04
finished before let me finish the thought before. Oh, my God, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I want to hear your story. No one cares. The world The world doesn't care. Like you don't have make

Shannon 1:17:16
jokes about it. It's like the brunt of jokes and a they think it's funny. And I think diabetes is funny. Who does? A lot like I feel like a lot of people.

Scott Benner 1:17:26
Do you hear them all?

Shannon 1:17:29
No, I've only heard like one or two. Okay, so who cares?

Scott Benner 1:17:31
Like, like, you know what's interesting? This thing happened yesterday. I have this my whole life. I think Sinead O'Connor is a is that a cop? accomplished musician? Who is a great singer. Right.

Shannon 1:17:47
Did you Wikipedia her yesterday?

Scott Benner 1:17:49
No, no. And I know and I know her. I feel like I know her music, right. And I feel like I know, she's been an activist in her younger years. And that recently, she seems like she's had some trouble and seemed unbalanced at some point. And so and so yesterday, I learned that that she's died. And it takes me five seconds to noodle around on the internet and learn that her 17 year old son committed suicide last year, that she seemed erratic to people on social media the day before, and I jumped to the conclusion this woman's probably taking her own life, right? Because she's 56. Right, right. And it made me go listen to I was in the car and I thought I'm gonna listen to sinead o'connor music and I pulled it off because I thought she's so popular and, and and good that she must have all this great. I know one sinead o'connor song.

Shannon 1:18:44
Yep. Yep, same here. Yeah, this same exact thing happened to me yesterday. One,

Scott Benner 1:18:49
I know one and I listened to it. And I went, this is fine. And I thought like, did she spend her whole life worried that people would like her music or not like her music? Or like, you know, like, like, all these unimportant things? Because it turns out, I don't know any of her music, but I'm aware of who she is. I like I don't really know anything about her. And so my opinion of her is meaningless. But But did it somehow carry weight with her? Like, what does the world think about me? I don't know. Like these are somehow disconnected and connected at the same time. Because if someone's off making a joke about diabetes, does that really have anything to do with you? Because you're not Sinead. Oh, no, you don't. I mean, like you You haven't been on Saturday Night Live like nobody really knows who you are.

Shannon 1:19:39
Yeah, nobody really cares. But I somehow care. What what they think

Scott Benner 1:19:47
so even though nobody knows who you are, and they are not making any personal statements about you, you're worried that their statements are about you. Yeah. And that matters to you.

Shannon 1:20:00
Yes. Okay, it matters. With, with some things with with a lot of things.

Scott Benner 1:20:05
Yeah. But as we talk about it, you recognize they're not talking to your about, you

Shannon 1:20:12
know, but I guess my biggest fear is that like, as I accept more that, that diabetes is difficult, and that it has really affected my life in a lot of ways. I'm afraid that no one will grasp the depth of that. And then they'll just think that it's, it's some silly disease or easy or something. Why

Scott Benner 1:20:43
does that matter?

Shannon 1:20:44
I have no idea. Okay. But it does.

Scott Benner 1:20:50
Okay, I'm not, I'm not arguing with you. I just I don't understand why No, no.

Shannon 1:20:55
It's definitely a valid question. And I wish I knew the answer. But I do want to say nothing compares to you came out when I was three years old. And I think it was the first song I was ever like, really, I'm very, like, musically oriented. I love you know, I love to sing and it but it was like the first song I was ever like, really captivated by in life. And I remember I went to, I went with my mom, she was going to get her her hair cut, or whatever. And I told the hairdresser that I wanted to shave my head. And she's like, why do you want to do that? And she's like, because I was like, because I want to be like Sinead O'Connor. Like, I'm like this, like three or four year old kid saying this and. And she's like, Okay, we'll sing the song for me, and I did. So that's my Sinead memory. But it truly is the only song that I know.

Scott Benner 1:21:47
The only song any of us know, that's, that's fine. My point. My didn't shave my head. Yeah, my point about her is just because she was in my consciousness from yesterday. And, and that, yeah, I felt like I knew a lot about her. But it turns out, I don't. And I wonder if she spent time thinking people know who I am. Or I need to do more so that they can like it's all the same, like you in your personal life and a person being famous or experiencing the same thing just on different scales. Right? So there's this really, like, so I make a podcast, okay. Yeah, now, it's downloaded a lot, but not nearly as much as other people's. So the way I like to tell people in my personal life, I don't know if I usually say this on here. But this podcast is in the top 96% of all podcasts that exist, which is an astonishing, until you,

Shannon 1:22:41
you feel inclined to tell them that so you must care that they don't think that you're just like some random guy with a podcast,

Scott Benner 1:22:47
or I'm telling you a story, you haven't gotten to get to the end of it yet. So like so my point in telling you that is that it feels like it's this really big thing, except that the 4% of people are the 3% of people who have podcasts that do better than mine. To them. My podcast looks like a hobby. You understand, like, so I have this feeling that I'm reaching a lot of people, but I'm not really not in the grand scale scheme of things. And at the same time, there's this thing that comes over you in the beginning, where do people like this? Are they bob, and you have to let go of all that. Like, if you want to be successful at podcasting, for example, you can't worry about what people think. Because in the end, I'm only trying to be there for the people who like what I do, if I tried to be acceptable to everybody. If I wanted to make sure that from the far left to the far right, and everybody in between and every religion and culture, and everybody loves me, what I would end up doing is making something soy milk toast that it didn't matter. And it would die. Like you can't win, there are plenty of those, right? But hold on, we're getting to it. You can't make everybody happy, you can only be you. Now take that and apply it to yourself.

Shannon 1:24:12
I will do my darndest that's it. Um, I have been trying like I I think at least I'm aware at this point that this is not a way to live, you know, that's not sustainable, because it doesn't doesn't feel good to not good because because I feel inauthentic if I if I just present one version of myself and I'm not talking about the hard things. It's not it's not authentic,

Scott Benner 1:24:45
you know, you need to be yourself like like so my audience, right? The people who either are helped by me or find value in it or entertained or like me or whatever it is that it doesn't matter. Whatever brings them back all the time. Those are the people that I that I care about. Right like, and that's a large group of people, which was my point about telling you the 90, like, what my point is, is that if you go out into the world and be yourself, you'll probably be in the 96th percentile of people who like you, most people will probably like Shannon, and probably not care when they when you say something that doesn't seem perfect, because I don't make any effort to be perfect on the podcast, right? Like I say things all the time that people are like, I can't believe you said that. And I go, Yeah, this probably not, this is probably not for you this podcast. Like if you're, if you're not okay with that, you probably want something else, you should go get that don't sit around telling me you don't like me, that's, I mean, it's cool. If you don't, but we don't belong together, then. The concern probably is, is that most people won't like you. But what I'm telling you is that there's a big enough audience in the world, that you will, you'll do fine. And I mean that even within your personal, I'm trying to relate these two things together, like in your, in your personal relationships, most people are going to end up liking you, the ones that don't will go away. And the ones that do will stay behind and you'll be great. Like, that's like, there's no real fear of like, this is gonna go wrong. Like, but you've you're worried about it going wrong?

Shannon 1:26:20
Yeah, I don't I just don't believe that 96% of people are gonna like me, like, I don't want I don't believe it. Like I, I believe there are so many things I can do. In in a split second, that will just make somebody not like me. And it's just like always there. It's just a looming thing that's always there for me. Have you ever I'm like a nice person. I'm a fun guy. You know, I can be like, I have a sense of humor like I can. It's not like I have real reason to think this. But apparently I do.

Scott Benner 1:27:01
Yeah, no, no, I, if you've heard me say this, I guess that me but when I was first dating my wife, she very earnestly said to me one day, she goes, some people really don't like you. And I said, Yeah, I would expect everybody to like me. And she said, Does that not bother you? And I said no. She goes, Well, other people really do seem to like you when I was a kid she does is a matter of fact, either people seem to really like you or really not like you. And I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. And then she pointed out a person and said, like this guy, I remember, he really doesn't like you. And I said, What do you think of him? And she started talking about him. He wasn't a pleasant person, you know, number of different reasons. And I said, Well, then, what would it say about me if he did like me? I mean, isn't it good that that person is not attracted to who I am? Yeah, you know, why does any of that matter? I don't know. It's probably got something to do with your parents telling you you were terrific.

Shannon 1:27:59
Something to do with that. And I would just say, it's absolutely something to strive for. I think. I think you've got it right. Maybe count your lucky stars, that. That's the sort of mindset you go into. Yeah, no.

Scott Benner 1:28:17
I gotta bring my foot back down hard. Sorry. I absolutely do. I don't want to come off. blase about it. I think just like good health or good mental health or any of the other height. You know what I mean? Like the things you get lucky with, you are just getting lucky with this is just how my brain works. I can't do anything about it. I would just say to you that I think you're you. You've seen the lightful you're not perfect. I got it. But you're not perfect. And that should be okay. Yeah, and everybody's not going to, like be down with Shannon. But who cares? Like that? Like, because otherwise, and this is the harsh reality of it. You're 36 You don't live forever? No. Is this your story? You spend your whole life doing this? You know what I mean? Like,

Shannon 1:29:06
that's it. I like that. That's a good that kind of flipped a switch there.

Scott Benner 1:29:10
Like just be done with it. It's ridiculous. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's no different than spending. I know a person spends their whole life smoking cigarettes going, I gotta stop smoking cigarettes. I gotta stop. So I'm gonna just stop smoking cigarettes, like, what the hell like how, how much longer are we going to talk about it? Like do I either do it or don't and if you don't then dive in headfirst and just say to yourself, I'm gonna smoke this sigma socket, like a and then just until it kills me and I'm gonna be happy about it. I'm gonna make a bit of a big sign that says I did this to myself. I wanted this Don't feel bad for me. Like, like, do it or don't do it. And in but like the sitting around ruminating is yeah,

Shannon 1:29:51
the ruminating it's

Scott Benner 1:29:54
exhausting. You know, like, isn't it exhausting to you?

Shannon 1:30:00
Yeah. Oh, it's so exhausting. And that's what I talk about the stress that surrounds that is, is what's going to healthwise take more out of me than probably the diabetes number. Yeah, yeah. And that's so silly. Shannon, they wanted Yeah, your

Scott Benner 1:30:20
story we're going to end with, okay, but I want to say this to you, and then just do with it what you will. The truth is that people come on the show, and they they'll lay down a track, like the one you've done with me today, right? And it's going to help a lot of people. My concern is always that it never ends up helping the person who recorded the episode. And so don't let that be your story, please. Like when this comes out, go back and listen to it. And pretend it's not you. Just listen to it like it's someone else. Because as you're listening, you're gonna think Oh, Shannon, come on. Like, just, you know what I mean? Like, you know what to do, Shannon just do that. Like, like, right here. Like, that's a decision you made, like, don't make that decision. Like those sorts of things. Like, I am very fond of the phrase, that person wants to be upset. And it doesn't really mean that people want to be upset, it means they're comfortable there. It's the place they want to be. And you're comfortable in this position. You don't like it and you wish it was different. But it's what you know, and therefore you don't. Maybe it doesn't feel like it's that important to break away from, but I think I think it is. So and I think you'll be a much better clinician when you graduate if you figure out a way to do that for yourself as well.

Shannon 1:31:39
Yeah, I agree. That's all I agree. I'm talking gets important.

Scott Benner 1:31:43
I got nothing else. What's your story?

Shannon 1:31:47
Yeah, no, I just thought this popped into my head earlier, I forget what it was we were talking about. But in at school, we were doing this, we had this one class where we basically broke out into partners. We change the change the partners once in a while throughout the semester and work with different people. But basically, we would do like live counseling sessions with each other for about five minutes in front of the entire class. We're about three quarters of the way through the semester, we change partners, and I start working with this woman who I've had a few classes with her and I had never really talked, she is she has some vision disability. She's not. She's not blind, but she has a lot of different things going on with her vision. And we started talking, and my professor kind of had us do some icebreakers beforehand, before we were going to like go into this counseling session with each other. And it was sort of I forget what the prompt was, but it was sort of something like, you know, tell me two things I don't know about you. And I finally just decided to say it, because she had told me that with her vision, the way her eyes look, it looks different and scary to people. And so she feels as though she gets a lot of weird reactions from strangers. If she tries to ask somebody directions or the time, you know, they they act weird towards her. And I wanted to sort of, I guess, commiserate along with her. And I told her about how Yeah, I'm a type one diabetic. And I have a real problem, too, with telling people about my diabetes, because I'm afraid of their reactions. And she was floored. She was like, what? And she was like, I had no idea that you had diabetes. I had no idea that something like that would affect you that you would be affected by by what other people think because she said and then she kind of we share it out loud with the class, like what we found in our icebreaker activities. And she's like, Yeah, you guys know Shannon, who comes in here like, Hey, I'm Shannon and like, I'm like, very self assured and self confident. Well, it turns out, she's actually not here hearing some hearing somebody say that out loud. To me was like, I had no idea people thought of me like that. First of all, I didn't know that I came into situations like that. So it was just very, I guess, very eye opening that that is the persona I project. And that when I finally tell somebody the truth, the god honest truth about how I'm feeling. It's like this person who I never really talked to her throughout our classes. She all of a sudden warmed up to me and she wanted to be like, friendly with me and wanted to know more about me and it was sort of just like this lesson and like, Okay, well you know that often anticipate that I was talking about if I'd finally just am authentic with people, maybe maybe I've been getting in my own way of people like me, because I don't show my authentic self. I don't talk about the hard things.

Scott Benner 1:35:12
Maybe that's it, maybe. I mean, maybe it turns out the whole podcast could have been just the last two minutes, and we would have been done. That's really, yeah, I mean, go with that. Yeah, yeah, go with that. Just, you already know how to project. Like your success. Obviously, people see you that way. So now all you have to really do is be the person you're projecting, and you're done. And now you have the confidence to know that people will like that, no matter what the truth is about you.

Shannon 1:35:46
Yeah, that's all. Yeah. So it was definitely insightful to hear that. And, you know, that was a couple of months ago now. And I think I've been trying to kind of like, internalize it more. And that is my goal, as you know, as you were saying, as a clinician to go through this whole process myself of figuring out how to come out of this, these patterns and stuff that I've created in my world, and then how to help other people apply that to their own life if, you know. So, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:36:23
Sounds like a plan to me. Yeah, it really also, who knew that the that the education system for clinic for clinicians for this was taking advantage of knowing like we know who comes into this space will actually help fix them while we're teaching them?

Shannon 1:36:36
That yeah, kill two birds with one stone. It's great.

Scott Benner 1:36:41
You know, the entire time we've been talking, no matter how serious this conversation has been, I am somewhat stuck on the idea of your dad being so smitten by your mom when they were little that he was like, I don't need to graduate from high school.

Shannon 1:36:56
Well, they are celebrating their 40 year anniversary this week, or next weekend. So we're all going all three Vagabond children are going to celebrate with them. And their two grandkids too. And so yeah, congrats to them. Oh, that's huge. Everyone who needs a high school diploma anyway? No, really? Yeah, he's still so like, smitten with her. And like, the things that that man does for my mom. Wow. That's

Scott Benner 1:37:24
lovely. Isn't that nice? All right. Sure. Well, listen, you got a guy for 10 years. You're not even married to him. He doesn't leave.

Shannon 1:37:33
True. Yeah. So many good reasons to and he's. He's a champ with the diabetes stuff, too. So Oh, that's

Scott Benner 1:37:40
lovely. Well, you must have you must have tricked him like your mom trick your dad.

Shannon 1:37:43
Yep. Yep. It's hereditary smoke and mirrors all smoke and mirrors. All right, hold

Scott Benner 1:37:48
on for a second. Okay, thanks.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven, which now integrates with a tandem T slim x two system. Learn more and get started today at dexcom.com/juicebox Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from us med for three years, you can as well, US med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 My thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode. And for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com to us Med and all the sponsors.

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