#976 Type Two Stories: Nanci

Nanci has type 2 diabetes.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 976 of the Juicebox Podcast

I am back with another type two story today is with Nancy. Nancy had gestational diabetes with I think her second pregnancy she's a type two now has been for quite some time. And this story is I think it's a lovely I think it's an honest portrayal of what it might be like to live with type two diabetes. And it offers some real insight to things that maybe could have been done differently for Nancy, but things you could definitely implement now. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Save 40% By using the offer code juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com I am wearing my cozy Earth joggers right now. And I put brand new cozy Earth sheets on my bed yesterday and I got in them and I thought this is how it's supposed to be save 40% off your entire purchase at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juicebox at checkout

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the blood glucose meter that my daughter uses. And one that I think you should check out whether you have pre diabetes, type two diabetes or type one diabetes because it is so incredibly awesome and accurate. That Contour Next One Gen blood glucose meter. Learn more Get started today by right now online. Find out about the Second Chance test strips the whole thing. All that stuff you can learn at my link contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Today's show is also sponsored by touched by type one now. Right now Today is August 8. So that means in just a little over a month touched by type one.org. Programs tab annual conference in just over a month. I will be speaking at the touch by type one annual conference. It's a free conference for individuals of all ages and backgrounds. The goal of this conference is to educate, encourage and empower all lives touch with type one diabetes, whether you have type one, or just the connection to someone who does. The annual conference provides a unique opportunity to be surrounded by the nation's top experts related to thriving despite diabetes. And I feel weird saying that because I'm gonna be one of those people come see me speak on September 16. At the Rosen Shingle Creek, Orlando, Florida location, come on touch by type one.org It's free. And Jenny's gonna be there. Go Register Now what are you doing? What's back that place?

Nanci 3:02
My name is Nancy with an eye not a why? Almost 58. I'll be 58 at the end of the month. And I am a type two diabetic along with a myriad of other things.

Scott Benner 3:16
Oh, that's, that's gonna make a great conversation. Thank you for having health issues and coming. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. So you're 57 Almost 58. When did you learn that you had type two.

Nanci 3:32
So I had gestational diabetes with my second pregnancy. And after I had my second daughter it was kind of it was strange, because I didn't know what gestational diabetes was like. I felt like no one ever explained it to me. No one around me had ever had it. I never had read about it. I mean, I just didn't know what it was. And mostly I felt like when I would go for my checkups. They would well kind of berate me about how much weight I was gaining and that my blood sugar levels weren't good. And I really still like think back to then and I'm just so surprised at how little I knew and how little I was told about it.

Scott Benner 4:25
Nancy, let me ask you a question before you go any farther. Is there any chance that in your spare time you torture puppies? No, it's what is that noise?

Nanci 4:37
I'm so sorry. It's my dog. slash my daughter's dog. And she she's a poodle and she's extremely needy. And she's

Scott Benner 4:49
outside of the room.

Nanci 4:50
Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 4:52
what would you let her in?

Nanci 4:54
I'ma let her in. Yeah, hopefully hopefully she'll behave because she really doesn't like being there. I'm so sorry. All

Scott Benner 5:02
right now it just sounds like you're breaking a law of humanity. While you're

Nanci 5:06
Yeah, she's, she's she's pretty good at that to be honest. She her name, her name is Luna. She's little white poodle. And she is 11 years old and probably the most needy dog on the planet.

Scott Benner 5:23
Well let her and let's see what let's see what happens to Luna when she comes in. By the way around here. The moon was amazing last night something called a Strawberry Moon. I don't know if it Yes,

Nanci 5:31
yes. And and yesterday we were talking about how she was even more needy. And someone said, oh, you know there's a full moon and dogs get a little bit more. And I had never heard that before. So

Scott Benner 5:49
yeah, is she in? She then we tell you a story. My mom and dad owned a poodle that they loved very much. And then they adopted me and the poodle went after me and my mom got rid of the poodle. Oh, my goodness. thank my mom for sticking up for me right now. Well,

Nanci 6:09
I mean, not I'm not gonna say that my daughter doesn't love her dog. But my daughter just had her second baby. And so that's why I have the dog. Luna lived with me years ago when my daughter still lived here wasn't married. And she was like both our dog and then my daughter moved out and she took the dog. And truthfully, I missed the dog more than her. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. And so I had visitation with the dog. So I would take the dog every few weekends and after her first daughter was born, we were kind of concerned because Luna can have a little bit of an attitude. So they did okay together. But after the second baby my daughter was a little overwhelmed. So I have had the dog for almost three months now. And we don't know what's gonna happen.

Scott Benner 7:09
How much do you get paid to watch the dog?

Nanci 7:13
I get love and adoration.

Scott Benner 7:16
I just took my dog either. We use this terrific like kind of private kennel near my house. So it's lovely for the dogs. They I think they like it. They're better than they like it in our house. And I know what I just paid her to watch my dogs for 10 days. So I think you are being underpaid love is not enough. Oh my God. Are you paying for the food too?

Nanci 7:37
No, that's this is so funny Scott that you asked that. So Luna being a poodle, you know, she's had some stomach issues throughout her life. So like I said, She's almost 11 So my daughter, you know, buys her this bougie food from the farmer's dog. Am I allowed to say that? I'm sorry. Sure. And it is expensive, like almost $300 a month for dog food. And so I was

Scott Benner 8:06
yeah, you guys were royalty. Am I talking to royalty? Oh my gosh, that's lovely. Do I curtsy to you? Are you a queen? $300 a month to feed your dog. Hold on a second. Yeah. 300 times 12 I can do this in my head six. And then three. Is it $3,600 a year to feed that poodle? Yeah.

Nanci 8:31
I know. It's crazy.

Scott Benner 8:34
I know. He's not laughing at me. But I am. Oh my god.

Nanci 8:40
I mean, so that was like one of the things I was like, you know, we can take Luna but her bougie lifestyle is above my paygrade so you're gonna have to continue to pay for the dog food. So she still pays for the dog food.

Scott Benner 8:57
I'm gonna I'm going to tell you something. We're gonna get to your type two diabetes in just a second. Okay, but I remember gestational the whole thing I got it in my head. Don't you worry. We had to take a trip to see our kids right. And I have two dogs. India's old like I'm not kidding you. He's 15 like India is the kind of old that like when you wake up in the morning you'll stare at him to see if he's breathing and when he's breathing you go huh no kidding. Like it's that he's that he's that all right. And then Basil is like seven or eight which I guess is getting old but he's pretty much like luggage. You could just pick them up put them down somewhere else he exists again. I think his brains the size of a Walmart like he's fantastic. You know? So our kennel says look in these two old he can't come here anymore. We have to find another kennel. Alright, I understand. We only use this place like once a year so it's not like we're great business for them or anything like that. Just you know too much to watch him to get his age. And so I find another kennel that's like don't worry about him being an older dog. We Trouble that oh my god, it's terrific. Thanks. We dropped them off. Here's the play. I'm going to drive to Atlanta with my son. And the next day Arden is going to drive to Savannah. Or what am I supposed to say she, Where does she go to school? Chicago, I think that's what I'm supposed to say. And Kelly and Kelly is going to drive to work on and goes to school. So I leave a day before I am halfway to Atlanta, when my phone rings. And the kennel says, Hey, you got to come pick your dogs up. And I was like, what now? And she goes, and all I could think is oh, God, indeed. Like, scared them like you. He went into one of his like, staring at the wall faces and they were like, oh, no, like, what's wrong? And she goes, Basil won't stop knocking his water over. And I went, Oh, that's easy. Just don't give him water. Because I'm in self preservation mode at this point. I'm like, no, no, no, like, this isn't happening, you know? So she just No, listen, you know, we tried doing this. We tried giving him a bucket. We tried tying the bucket to the cage. He flips it over immediately. We can't leave him here without water. And I was like, Sure you can. It'll be fine. I was like, I mean, not forever. Like, give him water with this food. He'll drink it, and then he won't have it the rest of the time until he eats again. Wait, no, no, I can't do that. I'm like, I mean, that's what we do at our house. But okay, I'm like, like, there's not always water in a bowl like there is but not always like it really. I can't talk her into it. So I'm calling my wife. I'm like, I don't know what to do. And so I call the woman back again, I tried to talk her out of it. And in the midst of trying to talk her out of it. I say to her, Listen, I can't do I can't. I was like, here's what you're gonna need to do. Let them outside. If Jesus wants him to find us. When he comes back, you know, if he comes back, when I get back from my trip, whatever, I'll go to the woods where you let them out. And I'll call his name a couple times. I'm like, if he comes back then God bless. And if not, I'm like, I have no other options here. I can't I can't not. I can't get oh my deal with this. And she's like, No, oh my gosh, out of no partying goes. You know, we just bought that new water dish. Like, like, I want to be clear. Bezos never flipped his water bowl over here at my house ever once. Never. But recently gotten this water dish that didn't allow for sloshing because because India's messy when he drinks, and it has little rubber feet on it. And oh, Arden Kelly ran that over to the kennel put it in there, Basil looked at it. He was like, Oh, this is cool. And he left it alone. And that was that. But I was willing. I'm even worried were I was like you're committed, let them outside. And we'll find them a reward when we get back. And I didn't really mean that. But I was out of options. Anyway, dogs are a pain. People shouldn't buy them. They're loved

Nanci 12:58
I, but they are there. They're the greatest companions. And they're, they are like, so sweet and fun. But there are a lot there. There are a lot. No,

Scott Benner 13:09
I would have abandoned a child. If somebody told me I had to drive back from Italy.

Nanci 13:13
Right? Like, sorry, drop her off at the bus station. We'll see you whenever

Scott Benner 13:18
Oh my god. So now, you know this last time we left them nd so old that that the person says to me, I have to ask you like, if he passes while he's here, what do you want us to do? And I was like, we'll call the vet. And you know, I'll work it out with them. What we would do and everything. And she goes, would you want us to call and tell you? And I didn't hesitate? I was like, Yes, of course. And I said is that a question? She goes, a lot of people ask not to be bothered on their vacations if their dogs die. Then those people are monsters that like Yeah, and if you're listening, and you've done that you're a piece of shit. And so it's a very easy thing to like to come down on the side of I was like, no, please, if anything's wrong with my pets, please call me immediately. I might tell you to let them out. But

Nanci 14:09
I want to know do you want to know safe house? Yeah. unrealised

Scott Benner 14:12
she told me a lot of people say that. Like if he dies. Don't tell me. We'll find out when we get back. I'm like, oh, that's I don't know where to fall on that one. But anyway. That's extreme. Yeah. Speaking of extreme, tell your daughter. I said She's out of her fucking mind. Okay, I

Nanci 14:30
know. You're not the first got, believe me.

Speaker 1 14:36
10s of 1000s of people listening right now going, that girl is crazy. So anyway, very nice that you would do that for the doc. You get gestational diabetes with your second kid during the pregnancy, which was a long time ago because how old are your children?

Nanci 14:51
Um, so the one that I had gestational with is 31.

Scott Benner 14:55
Wow. So that was, yeah, 31 years ago. Gestational Diabetes. I was confused about something people are going to be like, I don't know how Scott did this after this long tangent about dogs but I remember you saying they were giving you trouble about your weight. Was this during your pregnancy people were?

Nanci 15:12
Yes. Okay. Yes. And I had I had already had severe insecurities about my weight, I had that pretty much to my whole life.

Scott Benner 15:27
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Nanci 16:53
And I did gain a lot of weight. I mean, I am only five to maybe five, three on a good day. And I was upwards of over over 200 pounds when I gave birth to my first daughter. And then again, upwards of over 200 pounds when I gave birth to my second daughter. But I had gained a lot of weight rapidly at the beginning of my second pregnancy. And the nurses, when I got on the scale would just give me like this shocked look that they couldn't believe that I gained that much weight. And one nurse even said, are you having twins? And I was like no, not that I know of. I'm just big. And one of the one of the funniest or it's funny now it wasn't funny them but one of the funniest stories that I ever tell people. When I was pregnant with my second daughter, she was born right before Christmas. And so I was at a mall with my mom trying to get all of the Christmas shopping done before she came because I knew she was going to come and then I wouldn't be able to go and do all the Christmas shopping. And I mean I was huge. And I was standing outside of the store waiting for my mom and a complete stranger walked up to me and looked at me and she said, You are the biggest pregnant woman I have ever seen.

Scott Benner 18:29
Oh, Merry Christmas.

Nanci 18:31
I know. And I oh my goodness, I immediately started just bawling. And my mom came out and she thought I was in labor. And she was like what is happening? And I couldn't even talk. I was so upset. This woman would say that to me. But yeah, yeah, well.

Scott Benner 18:50
Hey, Sandra. Wait, what? No, no. When you said you were over 200 When you gave birth? What were you when you started like on the day you got pregnant?

Nanci 18:59
So with my first daughter, I mean, I was I was probably only about 125 pounds. So I probably Yeah, I probably gained a good 7580 85 pounds what my first pregnancy and then was with my son.

Scott Benner 19:17
Was it mentioned to you during your first one. Doctor say hey, we're putting on a lot of weight here or I'm uncomfortable with Was there ever any conversation about that? No, no. Did you feel that way?

Nanci 19:30
I mean, I did. I did because I was very aware of how big I was getting. And I felt huge. And I I knew that I had gained more than what normal I guess regular pregnant women to me. Seem like what they gain but yeah, in my first pregnancy. I never remember them. meaning my OBGYN or the nurses or anybody saying anything. I don't know if it is because I was so young, I was only 23 When I had my first daughter, so I don't know if maybe it was because I was so young and maybe not that I was that much older. I was 25 when I had my second daughter, so, but I didn't lose all of the baby weight from my first daughter when I got pregnant with my second daughter. So I probably was about 150 pounds when I got pregnant with my second daughter, and again, was probably, you know, to 10 to 11 When I gave birth to her,

Scott Benner 20:36
did they look at your blood sugar during the first pregnancy?

Nanci 20:41
I believe that I did have the, you know, like three hour glucose test during my first pregnancy, but I complete I can't, like totally remember, you know, because it was a long time ago. And I was young and and I I don't really remember, I definitely remember with my second daughter having it and not passing I guess, you know, and my, again, I have the same OBGYN so I'm not really sure. Like, why? It seems like a different experience. But, um, yeah, he would just kind of like, you know, ask me what I was eating. And then when I would say what I was eating, he'd say, you know, are you crazy? You can't eat that you're gonna you're gonna kill yourself and your baby. And I was like, what? Like, I just remember like, not understanding really what they were saying.

Scott Benner 21:42
Did you Nancy feel like you were eating more food than was reasonable?

Nanci 21:50
I don't think I don't think I was to be honest. I think I probably over indulged in some stuff. Okay. But I do think I had, like, I ate the wrong things. You know, I, I ate pasta, and bread, and heavy carb food, which I know now. But back then, to be honest, I really didn't know like, I I remember, you know, when I was younger, I was just thought sugar made you fat, or sugar made you have bad things happen to you. But I'm half Italian. And so, you know, we eat pasta and bread. And can I you know,

Scott Benner 22:37
can I ask also? I mean, this is 31 years ago. So, you know, a while back? Was there any like that like, well, I'm pregnant. I can eat whatever I want. Now, did that used to be? It was right.

Nanci 22:49
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm here eating for two. And I mean, most of my family members felt that way and thought that way. Yeah. So just Yeah, go ahead. You can have it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:05
Wow. So when you are diagnosed with gestational, and your second pregnancy, how do they manage it?

Nanci 23:13
So the only way that they managed it was by having me die diet. They just said I had to eat a better diet and that I couldn't have bread and pasta and to eat a lot of salad vegetables. And

Scott Benner 23:36
that was it. Did that work? Did that move your blood sugar down?

Nanci 23:40
I mean, I know that when I would go to my doctor's appointment, and they would test my blood sugar. They would say, Oh, it's a little high. But again, like I kind of remember like one time I think it was like 155 But, and I was like, is that good? Is that bad? And really, it was so strange to me. I think now knowing what I know. It was so strange to me back then that they, they didn't educate me at all like it was you would think I was living in like the 1930s in some backwoods town somewhere that, you know, they were just like, Oh, you're fine. I I just remember her I fell out knowing of it back. Yeah. Right. Like I just remember not not knowing anything and no one explaining anything to me.

Scott Benner 24:36
Okay, so they didn't give you they didn't give you insolence. Nope. Okay, so was the baby born like, big?

Nanci 24:45
She was huge. Okay. She was she was 10 pounds when she was born they and again back it's so funny because my you know, my daughter who just had two children. She's had a I don't know, seven or eight ultrasounds, I feel like with each baby, and when I had my children, they would not do an ultrasound on you, unless they really thought there was something wrong. It wasn't it wasn't a normal thing that you had done. So I remember about two, two or three weeks before I was due. My sister lot actually just had a baby and I was at the hospital visiting her, we have the same doctor. And I had been sent for an ultrasound. And I was sitting in my sister in law's room, I had to have the ultrasound went over there. And my daughter came in, which was her doctor as well, completely ignored her and looked at me and said, Do you know how big your baby is? You need to go over to the office right now. So they can schedule us for a C section. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. So yeah, I went over to the office. And they scheduled me and brought me in for the C section. And when they did the ultrasound, they said that they were reading that the baby was about 11 and a half pounds. But she ended up being 10. Because I just had so much fluid that yeah, she was 10 pounds, she was very big. So then

Scott Benner 26:18
after you have your, your daughter, your second child, how long until like, do you have type two diabetes right away? Or how do you find out about it.

Nanci 26:28
So after I had her, they, you know, had done all like the blood tests and things that they do in the hospital and my doctor had come in and he was like, it doesn't look like your blood sugar levels have, you know, dropped back down to normal. So I, you know, want you to see your just regular family doctor for this. And I remember a couple of months after I had my daughter, I went for a checkup and they you know, had test I had had like a fasting glucose done. And my fasting was like 160. So my doctor was like, oh, yeah, you have type two diabetes. And again, they just said, this is what we want. We want you to be on this diet, and we want you to get more exercise and you have to lose weight, you absolutely have to lose weight. And so that's what I did. I I went balls to the wall, I ate nothing but salad. And I walked miles and I lost the weight. And when I lost the weight and I went and had all my blood tests done again, my blood sugar's were pretty good. So basically, that was my

Scott Benner 27:45
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I was. Yeah, the lettuce for the rest of your life and walk right nonstop. Yeah, I think I'll be fine.

Nanci 27:52
And, and that's how I thought Scott like that is what I believe to be the rest of my life. And that just started the roller coaster of me dieting, trying every diet under the sun, you name it, I've done it. Gaining weight

Scott Benner 28:13
is that can I ask you Is that because you wanted to eat more normally, but you were just searching for something that wouldn't impact your blood sugar?

Nanci 28:20
Yes. All right. And I tried, I tried everything I and I would go six months, and I would lose weight and I would have good test results. And then after the six months, I would be like, Oh my God, I need a cheeseburger. And and so I would start eating what you know, quotations normal, I would I would think I have to eat normal, and then I would gain weight again. And then I would go and Jenny Craig and I would lose weight and then I would gain weight and go on Weight Watchers. And I mean it just went on like that for years.

Unknown Speaker 29:01
How long do you think

Nanci 29:04
I'm all the way to when I was. So in 2012 I had a spinal fusion where I had to have my C four through my C seven and my neck fused. Really probably just due to inactive lifestyle from when I was young. Because I didn't really like suffer any kind of trauma that would have caused me to have the injury in my neck that I had. So growing up little backstory growing up. I was extremely active. I rode horses competitively, I skied. I rode motorcycles. I was a cheerleader I ran track, so always fit I was always moving, doing stuff and I'm in 2012, I had to have this surgery. And after the surgery, the doctors were like, and I had been running prior to that doctors are like, No more running. You have to do low impact you can swim, you know. And I think I just was like, I, at that point, I just was like, I give up. I am so I'm just, you know, I'm done with all of

Scott Benner 30:30
it. Was really helping you with your type two.

Nanci 30:34
Yeah. And in between that, right. So I was doing like, I went on the diet where, like you, you don't eat anything white. So you have any sugar or rice or white potato or pasta. And I was like, you know, champion through that. And then again, went back to like, Oh, I really want to eat bread. I want to eat this. And then I found keto at some point. And I was like, the poster child for keto. I mean, I was trying to sell it to everybody I knew because I lost weight on keto. So I was like, This is the greatest thing. You can eat bacon and cheese and still lose weight. It's so great.

Scott Benner 31:14
Until that one day, were you looking at a slice of bacon and think I can't I can't, I can't do that. Again. I can't, there can be no more grease that comes from me. And it's unpleasant. Right? And so, wow. And through all of this. Are you? Like, are you managing with a meter? Do you have insulin? Like, what are you doing with your diabetes? So

Nanci 31:38
so the only so then what? So what happened then was I gained a whole bunch more weight again, right? And so years go by with me doing all this right. And then when I turned 50, and I went to my yearly checkup, and I mean, my, my fasting, glucose was horrible. And that's when I got put on the Metformin. And, to me, I thought, well, everyone that takes Metformin, I don't want to say gets better, but it improves their numbers. And I hadn't been tracking my numbers I had, I had a meter that did your ketones, because I had been doing keto. And the meter also came with that you could test your blood sugar. So I remember I was like, Oh, maybe I should try this. Let me let me test my blood sugar. And I tested it. And it was like 211. And I was like, I don't think that's good. And so that's when I started when I was about 50. And I started looking up and reading and trying to understand and educate myself about what was going on. Also, there's a long, long history of diabetes, type two diabetes in my family, my mom passed away from complications of it. My grandparents, both had it, all of my mom's brothers and sisters. And I still even with them having it back before I was about 50. I never educated myself about it. I never took the time to sit down, read about it, learn about it. And I beat myself up now for not doing that, because I know how important it was and that I should have been more aware of what was happening.

Scott Benner 33:44
Let me let me ask you a couple of questions about that. So your your mother dies from complications of type two diabetes? Yeah, you have type two diabetes, and you're in the middle of this never ending like flurry of jumping from diet to diet. And then I guess I'm assuming at some point, just restricting your diet so much that its value, you know, you're you're not taking in anything that can impact you at all, and then saying, Oh, I can't do this anymore. And then going back to it again. So you're flip flopping back, or at any point during that. Are you thinking I'm gonna die like my mom did?

Nanci 34:20
Um, yes, but only probably a little bit more recent. recent, recent, yeah. Because

Scott Benner 34:29
how long has this been in context? Like you've had type two for how long?

Nanci 34:33
So officially put on medication when I turned 50.

Scott Benner 34:38
Okay, but that's, um, that's eight years ago.

Nanci 34:41
Right. But, but, you know, between my gestational and turning 50 And all those years and looking at what what my blood sugar's were each time I would go for my checkup. They were always elevated. Not Not, not in like For hundreds but always like a fasting glucose of 161 70, sometimes 210, you know, which is clearly not healthy. But yeah, put on medication at 50.

Scott Benner 35:20
Put on medication at 50. And so it's interesting because 160, right, like, I think it's interesting to hear that you saw that blood sugar and you were like, Okay, well, I guess that's what this is. Or I, it's what happens when I eat XYZ instead of this. But no, like, not, not to feel like a poll to be like, Oh, I have to immediately stop this. Like, like, I don't I mean, like coming from a, like a type one brain. If you're my daughter's blood sugar was always 160. I think, Oh, my God, like, I have to do something right now today, like cancel our plans. I'm figuring this out. But it doesn't strike that way. And I've talked to other type twos as well, who will make these kind of like obvious statements from their life that are just like, to anybody listening. You're like, that's a red flag, but they don't see it that way. I never. I mean, I'm always trying to figure out why that is.

Nanci 36:21
Yeah, I I find it so bizarre now, because I know so much more. But it's, it's strange, because I remember distinctly after my mom passed away, because my mom was sicker than anyone knew she was because she didn't really. She didn't want people to know how sick she was. And so it was kind of a, I mean, we knew that she had diabetes and high cholesterol and high blood pressure. And we didn't know she had emphysema and we weren't aware of that. She did smoke. So we probably should have been aware. But my mom died pretty suddenly, she actually came to visit me where I live. And she would stay with me for like three months out of the year. And she was here visiting me and had some back pain. I thought it was maybe kidney infection or something. And I took her to the hospital. And three days later, she passed.

Scott Benner 37:39
Oh my gosh, yeah. I'm so sorry. Oh, what was what was the cause?

Nanci 37:47
So she went septic because she had a kidney infection. And her kid their kidneys were only functioning at I think they said at that time, maybe at like 20 or 30%. And it was, you know, from the diabetes? Yeah. And the rest of her, you know, Oregon's in her body had just worn out and the infection got into her blood. And she went septic and there was just nothing that she that they could do.

Scott Benner 38:19
Yeah, so she had had type two for how long?

Nanci 38:24
So she had had probably type two since she was about, I would say, probably 5055.

Scott Benner 38:31
Okay, and how old was she when she passed?

Nanci 38:35
I'm 77. Okay, so

Scott Benner 38:37
in 27 years of diagnosed type two, what was what was her management like? So she was on I'm sorry, I know. You said she kept it private, but as much as you know, right. Yeah.

Nanci 38:49
So I mean, she was on medication she took I can only assume and I know, it's crazy. That I don't know exactly. But I can only assume that it was something like Metformin that she was taking. And she just, I guess would just didn't want everyone to know. And because we I lived so far away from her. She lived 1500 miles away from me. And you know, when I would ask her, Oh, how was your doctor's appointment? She would say, Oh, wait, went well. I did good. So we I just didn't know how bad it was. And I knew she took pills because she had prescriptions with her when she would visit me and she would take them but from an outward or parents you know, she she didn't seem frail to the point that she looked sickly. She she just looked like my mom

Scott Benner 39:56
wanted to share this with you. My mom had a some sort of an episode last week where she was having trouble walking. And and I called her about two days. I mean, I was talking to her pretty consistently, but about two days into this. It is a situation where my mom finds it difficult for her to get like from her chair to her bathroom and back again. I call her up and we're talking everyday. So mom how you feel? And she was fine. I was like, Oh, great. You know, and they were chatting a little more, that it occurred to me to talk to her like she was 10. Mom, are you still having trouble walking? Yes. But you feel fine. Yes. I said, Mom, I think we can characterize not being able to walk to the bathroom is not feeling fine, don't you? Yes. And she goes, Yeah, probably. And it was like, Okay, no, fine. I'm fine. Everything's great. Fine, great. It's wonderful. Mommy changes. Nope. It's always like that. Never ever, ever says the truth.

Nanci 40:56
I know. And I've, you know, I do find that I do it too. You know, like, I think I don't want to I don't want to trouble my daughters with, you know, what I consider to be like, a small issue or something. So they same thing. They'll ask me and I'll just be like, nope, fine. I'm doing good.

Scott Benner 41:15
Yeah, yeah. It's just it's interesting. I don't think yeah, not common. But I mean, it's crazy, because, because look at what happened to your mother really like that idea of not understanding type two diabetes, either meaningfully with how to control it with medication, or how to control it as best you can with diet, then seeing if you need to supplement with medication, that whole thing, just not understanding it. And not understanding what it does. Like just takes her out like bang. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, and even, there's language you use around it. That makes it clear to me that people are just comfortable with this. Like you said, like, our organs just wear out. As if that's the thing that happens. You don't I mean, like, yeah, your organs just wear out eventually. But But when your sugar's high all the time, they were out a lot quicker. And yeah, and it's, um, it's just I don't know, it's kind of fascinating to me. So I'm sorry. Good. You have something to say?

Nanci 42:15
No. And again, I do like distinctly remember thinking to myself, after my mom passed away that I would, I wouldn't be like that, that I would never let myself get to that point of leaving my children so quickly. And not not having a control or a handle on my health. And, and yet, it still happened to me.

Scott Benner 42:44
Yeah. Tell me then through those eight years.

Nanci 42:48
Did you write so?

Scott Benner 42:49
Did you have that fight? Like, I'm gonna figure it out?

Nanci 42:53
Yeah, I mean, I kept trying, you know, I kept saying, I can do this, you know, I can get a handle on my health, I can do this. And like I said, I would try different diets. And, you know, my daughter got married, so I wanted to look good. And I went on, again, keto, and I walked and, you know, lost some weight. And right after the wedding, it was, Oh, I could have this or I can just have that. And it's fine. I'm going to I'm just going to have this.

Scott Benner 43:33
Yeah. And move away a little bit. Right, and then flows last much longer than you think they're going to.

Nanci 43:40
Exactly. And I just remember, I didn't you know, I just didn't feel good. You know, I had gotten to the point where, like, prior I think I'd never not really felt okay. I mean, I always felt like I felt okay, and probably, you know, right, I guess you know, COVID just like time is like so weird with COVID You can't remember if it was like was it before COVID Or during COVID But I think it was somewhere before COVID That I really just started to not feel well and you know, tired and sluggish and just not not feeling well at all and was so frustrated with myself that I couldn't lose weight and I so I came to the conclusion and it wasn't an easy one. But I said, I'm gonna have weight loss surgery. This is what I'm going to do to finally get a handle on all of this because I just can't I just can't get it handle on it and I need to and so I started like the whole procedure of Getting a gastric bypass, which is a long procedure. Like I think people think it you know, you decide to do it you go to the doctor and two months later you're having a gastric bypass but it doesn't work that way. It's a lot of doctor's visits different cardiologists, dietician, dieticians, regular doctor, your surgeon. And during all of that I had found out because I had to have an endoscopy done that I had gastroparesis. And I didn't know what that was. I didn't know that when I would eat, I would feel so uncomfortable. And I had really bad GERD I had really bad constipation. And so, found that out, and then had some more tests done and found out that I had fatty liver disease, and I was in stage two kidney disease. And really, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I it just blew my world. Like wide open. I thought, this is exactly what happened in my mom. And I'm, I'm doing it to myself. Like I'm, I'm my mom. And how

Scott Benner 46:23
long ago did you discover this?

Nanci 46:26
So, um, it was probably close to about two years ago, um, that I was going through. And what had happened was I so I was at that point, at this point, I was on Metformin, right Elsas, which is an oral semaglutide And one other diabetes medication that evades me at this moment. So I was taking three different medications for my diabetes. And I went to go have one of my endoscopies done and my blood sugar was 288 fasting on three different medications. And I was just beside myself, because I was like, I, I, what do I do, I just don't know what to do. And so I at that time, my regular doctor was just managing my diabetes. So I had made an appointment to see an endocrinologist, when to go see him and he right away said, You need to be on insulin, you're, you're the kind of type two diabetic that you're not responding to this, you need insulin. And so at that time, and this was obviously prior to me having a gastric bypass, but he put me on to Seba, Manjaro, and Glyburide. So again, I was on three medications, but three different medications from what I had previously been on

Scott Benner 48:01
going forward to write the Manjaro help you.

Nanci 48:05
Yes, it did. I, I, I I would say it was, you know, probably a couple of weeks. But my blood sugar levels were so much better, so much better. And I definitely felt better. There's no question that I wasn't feeling as sluggish. I wasn't feeling that just being exhausted failing all the time was

Scott Benner 48:36
was lowering your blood sugar? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You losing weight as well. Yeah,

Nanci 48:43
I definitely lost some weight. I won't say like I was on the very lowest dose. So I was, you know, started out at 2.5. And then after a month, moved up to the five and then stayed on the five until I had my gastric bypass. Okay. So I was on Manjaro for about four months.

Scott Benner 49:08
How much weight do you think you lost in four months?

Nanci 49:11
So I probably last I'm gonna say about 16 pounds.

Scott Benner 49:17
Okay. That's pretty Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Honestly. Yeah. Did you did it changed? I imagine how much you were able to eat?

Nanci 49:28
Oh, yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 49:30
Did it change? You're like, I don't I don't know how to ask this question. I guess for clarity. I'm using weego V for weight loss. So ozempic is a drug just like Manjaro Magento, I think is a GLP one and maybe a GLP? Two, right. So there's more kind of

Nanci 49:50
GLP one and a G Ip gap.

Scott Benner 49:52
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, for for satiate satiation, right like, and weight loss. So As ozempic During the testing for ozempic, they were like, hey, people lose weight on this, whether they have diabetes or not. And they did a separate study, relaunched it as we go V. It's the same exact literally the same exact molecule. Right, and I, you know, my, my body mass made, it may be eligible for weak Ovie. And so now I've been taking it for I think I have two more injections left. So it's a ramp up point two, five 1.5 them. One, I think I have two more one. So I guess that makes me 10 weeks on this maybe. And I've lost 20 pounds. Wow. And it's fascinating. Because, I mean, I've maybe changed up how I eat a little bit, but not really. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's not like, it's not like I was eating like pizza and french fries with both hands. And now I'm having like a sound like, it wasn't like that I didn't over eat to begin with. I just was a person who's like bodies, like I just held on to weight, you know, and I didn't matter what I did, you know, I can die it like my face off and lose 10 pounds, maybe. But then the minute, the minute I had anything near even like a reasonable calorie count, I would just start to put the weight back on again. And yeah, that is not happening now. Like not only do I not have, I mean, any appetite to speak of, like you have to literally remind yourself to eat. Yeah, but I'm, I'm losing weight, like, in a very consistent pace. And to say that I've I mean, my blood sugar's were not high, but I feel terrific. And you know, much better than I did before. We even went, Yeah, you know, we were gone. Like to bring our son home from college than we'd like wrapped up seeing our son in there, too. So we were out of the house for like eight days, I ate in a restaurant for eight days in a row. And was on two long car trips, which is should be an indication to you that I was not, you know, drinking tea with my pinky out, like having a watercress salad for lunch. And I came home only a half a pound heavier than I left. And once and once I was home for 24 hours, my weight went right back to where I was.

Nanci 52:24
Yeah, I I definitely think that the the drugs, the GLP ones are game changers. There's no question. And I do sometimes think to myself, had I found it sooner? Would would I have still gone through with having

Scott Benner 52:48
the gastric bypass? Totally what I was thinking yeah, that's what I was wondering. Yeah, yeah.

Nanci 52:52
And, and I don't know, I really I don't know, because I have had really good success with my gastric bypass.

Scott Benner 53:01
Tell me about that. Yeah. How much have you lost? And how? In what stretch of time? So I

Nanci 53:07
just had my six month checkup from my surgery date. And I am down. Almost 59 pounds. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So um, um, I mean, when I started, I was just about 210. And, again, I'm only, you know, five to five, three. And, you know, some people are like, well, that's not that big. But it is. It's, it's a lot of weight to carry. And I'm considering, not that everyone goes by the BMI standards, or what they say you should weigh if you are this tall, or this tall. But if you do look at those, you know, I should only weigh about 130 pounds. And so think about 80 pounds. I mean, that's, that's a lot. That's a lot of weight to carry around

Scott Benner 54:16
my God, it's insane. I, I, um, while we were away, I saw something funny I wanted to take a picture of, and instead of just taking a picture of it, I jumped in the picture. And I said to Kelly, I'm like, take a picture of me with this. And that is just something I would not have normally done. Yeah. And I have more weight to lose. But it's the first photo I've seen of myself, where I thought I would show this to someone. Like, like, in quite some time. And it's just it's fascinating. Like it's just fascinating how much better I feel like in my mind even just, you know, yeah, because I my whole life. I was like I don't understand why I shouldn't be, uh, you know, I've said it on here a million times, I'm happy to say it again. I am the fattest person who doesn't eat that you'll ever meet in your life. Like, I really just don't eat much food. Like it doesn't make any sense. And they're starting to say now some, some doctors, some weight loss doctors are starting to say that maybe and I should have somebody on to like, explain this. So just keep in mind that I'm this is like second hand me going through something here. But maybe there are people with GLP deficiencies, like not much different than the thyroid. Like so yeah. Like, you know, maybe your body's just not making enough or maybe it's making it and not taking it up for some reason. So giving some of it like, you know, through a supplement is changing it because I can't tell you. Like, I know, I didn't have a lot. Like I'm not obese. Okay, I guess actually, technically I am. But you know, like, by the standards that the doctors used and healthcare, right. But I'm not like, I don't I don't even know how to put it. Honestly, I don't I don't have context for it. But you wouldn't have looked at me and thought, Oh, my God, Scott's gonna die. Like like it. I didn't have that feeling. And the doctor told me when she gave it to me Look, you know, because my wife started at the same time. And she said, Look, you know, you'll probably see weight loss before she does. And I was like, Alright, whatever. And she's like, plus, you know, guys just seem to lose weight easier, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, but check this. And I'm four pounds lighter inside of five days. Now, nothing about my life changed that drastically. And then, you know, a couple more pounds the next week and a couple more, a couple more. And a couple more than one day. I was like, I weighed 20 pounds less than when I started. Yeah, it and I honestly think that 10 more weeks from now, I'm probably going to be down 40 pounds. And that's probably about where I I'll stop. But right, it was never going to happen otherwise, right? Never, ever, ever.

Nanci 57:00
And I totally agree with you that I think that there are people that have that deficiency, and these medications are changing their lives. Like literally, it's changing people's lives.

Scott Benner 57:14
I felt really sad last week when I saw that photo, and I thought, I wish I wish this would have existed sooner. Because I I have dodged being in photos with my kids.

Nanci 57:28
Yes, i Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that.

Scott Benner 57:34
And I mean, just for that alone made me sad, honestly. And I mean, I'm happy that medication exists. And I know it took forever to bring it to market. The first. The first inclination to this was in the early 80s, with a Canadian doctor who noticed that healer monsters don't get fat. And really, and they and they're not hungry after they eat. And that, wow, that led to him learning about the GLP and all this stuff. And then I you know, I happen to know because of what my wife did for a living like a decade ago, a decade ago, my wife came, my wife came home from work and said, there's going to be a drug one day that you take, it's going to help you lose weight. I've seen the early data, and it really works. Wow. But it's only really been on the market for a couple of years now.

Nanci 58:26
Yeah, because I, I remember when my doctor prescribed. So like I said, my primary care prescribe to me ride Celsus, which is the oral semaglutide it and it did nothing for me. Like I didn't lose any weight. It didn't do anything to my blood sugar. So I don't really understand how the injectable is different. But I guess maybe some people and more.

Scott Benner 58:57
I don't either, and I don't care. And I've heard people say like, well, there's no long term studies on I said, there are plenty long term studies on me being 40 pounds overweight and my 50s I know how that's gonna go with me. It's gonna go me having a heart attack is how it's gonna go. And you know, so I'm like, I don't want to I'm not going out like that. Like, I don't like I'm gonna fight a little bit here. And you can say, Oh, well, Scott, well, you could have eaten differently or exercise. I tried all that it didn't work. Like it just didn't do anything for me. I don't know why I don't even care why. And right. You know, it just it's not important. Like even let's say I didn't I deserve to die. Because I don't want to because I don't exercise like right we're, we're decision you know, and I've said this in another episode, but I'll repeat it here. This is kind of a grandiose thought. But if, if a generation of parents eat differently because they're on a GLP one for example, then a generation of children will grow up not eating poorly, because they won't be mirrored to them. Right? i We got lucky. Like, I'm not even gonna lie to you, we got really lucky because my wife and I, we grew up broke with any money. Like, we didn't have anybody leading us telling us how like what nutrition was, I'll tell people all the time, like in the 70s and 80s. Like no one understood what they eat. I know you think like, that's crazy, but it's not crazy. I made the joke earlier. There's a lemon on the front of like a lemonade mix that my mom would give us. And if you asked her if that was healthy, she'd be like lemons come from trees. You know what I mean? Like, like, come on. Don't be dumb, you know. And so there was no direction through any like that. I didn't have any directions. Then I had kids. And this is where I'm saying, I got lucky. My kids were so athletic, and so like involved and stuff like that. And we tried really hard to push them towards healthier food. But it was healthier to our understanding. Do you don't even like my idea of like health was like not serving my kid a frozen chicken nugget when he was little I cut up actual chicken and bread. Like I don't really know anything about nutrition or health or anything like that. And somehow my kids have are maintaining a better style of eating than Kelly and I had. But now suddenly, I mean, I got up this morning, I took two mushrooms and two eggs. And I scrambled them together in a pan and threw them in a wrap. And I couldn't even finish it. It was just like, oh, this is so much food. And so I finished it as best I could. And later today I'm going to have like a salad. And I think I'm gonna have some shrimp. Like I'm gonna like, I think I'm gonna pan fry, like saute some shrimp and throw it on some greens. And that's probably what I'm gonna end up eating today. Yeah, you know, and I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, a pound lighter than I was today. And I'm not hungry. And it's fascinating to my wife who I will have on the podcast at some point to talk about it because she has a much stronger kind of like, I don't know how to put it like a mental drawl to food. Yeah, right.

Nanci 1:02:05
It's that voice. Right. Yeah. And that's one of one of the things that I said, and I'm sad about Manjaro is that the one thing that I did notice is that it did take it took away the voice of me thinking, you know, before I went to bed at night, what will I have for breakfast tomorrow? And then while having breakfast thinking, what will I have for lunch today? And when I go grocery shopping, what will I buy to eat throughout the week? Yes, you might when I

Scott Benner 1:02:36
my wife talks about it exactly like that. Yeah, yeah. Open your eyes. Morning. What am I gonna eat for breakfast? And then wondering about lunch while you're making breakfast? Exactly. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, call that the food voice.

Nanci 1:02:50
Yeah. And I definitely felt that it Manjaro took that away from me. And now I eat pretty similar to what you just said that you eat. And it is a little bit more, because I have to, you know, I, I have a really small stomach now. So I have no choice. And I have to eat like that. But I do feel I feel I feel better about myself that I'm making those choices. And I'm not beating myself up about the choices that I make, like, so

Scott Benner 1:03:30
I can't agree anymore. Like that's, you know, to say to someone, like, it's easy to say to someone, we'll just have more self control. Right? Like, as a matter of fact, there's a whole industry out there there's, there's 10,000 podcasts making a living telling people to like you know, just be strong, you know, exactly. Which is very easy for a person who doesn't have what you just described, like, like, like an absolute pinging in your head of like, what am I going to eat next? What am I going to eat next? Like that's not, that's not a lack of willpower. That's a it's a wiring issue. You're wired exactly differently. And they don't have great willpower. They're just not wired that way. So it's easy for them, right? Just like everything else, not hard to understand. But yet it gets broken down, like haves and have nots, like the ones who are willing to put in the work and the ones who aren't willing to put in the work. And that's Yeah, I think a great many situations, that's not the case. And even if it was, I'll just say it again, that's not a good reason why your organs should deteriorate and you die prematurely. Like that's exactly not okay. Right. And so if something helps, like I just, I'm looking back at you and all I could think is somebody should have given this poor woman insulin eight years ago. Right, right. And yeah, real issues now.

Nanci 1:04:47
Yeah. I think that way too. And again, I do you know, I think to myself, How did you not learn about it or I tried to figure it out, but I, you know, I trusted my doctors and, and how I guess,

Scott Benner 1:05:07
I mean, honestly, I'm How would you know, you can't look anything you can think of in the world, even with access to the Internet right now. Because there is that argument like we have, I forget what it's like we have access to more information now than the President of the United States had in the 80s. Which is amazing, right? Except, except everything you wonder about, gets monetized by somebody. And then the other side of it gets monetized by somebody else. So there are two competing arguments like, like, you know, you you mentioned, you were on keto earlier, it's a perfectly reasonable way to eat if you want to eat that way. It's not a problem until someone starts making a living coaching you about your keto, or selling keto food, because now they are going to fight till the end of the earth to defend keto. And on the other side, somebody's out there with their cupcake company being like, these motherfuckers in their queue, I gotta sell these cupcakes. And like, you know, like, and they're, and it's back and forth, and back and forth. And now people have become so adept at marketing through how do I put this through everyday interactions, they've become so adept at it, that you can get involved in what you think is a conversation with somebody that's really just a marketing ploy. And yeah, you'll never know what's happening. And I only am aware of this because I run a Facebook group that is so big. And I've watched people do it with so many different things. They'll do it with T shirt sales, they'll do it with we just had a bit we actually literally just had a mob of six accounts that were just in there starting what looked like organic conversations about comfortable footwear to sell a shoe. And it was it was well done. So somehow, someone would show up and go, Oh, hey, ladies, talk to me about comfortable footwear, because I have to go on a blah, blah, blah, and I don't know, and then they'd let real people come in and answer. And then eventually, one of their other accounts would come in and go, Oh, my God, my doctor told me about these and they're great. And they put up a link and they were selling those shoes that they had three or four other accounts that come in to prop up the conversation and keep it going. And then when it ran out of steam, they delete it so that the moderators would notice it, and then they'd come around a couple days later and do it all over again. And sneaky and and it's very common. Wow, that's my point. Like I do. Yeah, I do stuff like I have ads. But you know, their ads, like, like, it's it's not like in the middle of the conversation. I just start like going like Yeah, yeah, right, right now that's crazy. Right, right. Yeah, no, yeah, I happen to me once while I was drinking my athletic greens. Like, it's not, it's not it's not like that. I say, Look, this episode is sponsored by ag one, if you want to support the podcast, and drinky G one. Great. And if you don't, Natalie even care, honestly. It helps me if you're already going to buy it, buy it with my link that helps the podcast. But it isn't me like slipping it into a conversation trying to like, trick you into it. But that's very, very, very common. Yeah. And so my long winded point is, it's difficult to get good information. When that's not people's goal all the time. Sometimes their goal is just to get you to go by a thing or do a thing or click on a link or hire a health teacher. I don't know how you're supposed to figure that out is my point.

Nanci 1:08:36
And I and I am very easily influenced. So I can tell you that I bought a lot of stuff. I bought a lot of keto products. A lot of you know, workout equipment, different clothing, shoes, you name it. I bought it all you

Scott Benner 1:08:56
desperate to save your life. Yeah, that's terrible. Like think of it 1000s of dollars or 10s of 1000s of dollars.

Nanci 1:09:05
I mean, I probably you know, spent a good I'd say I'd spent a good $5,000 on keto products alone. That's fine.

Scott Benner 1:09:16
That's a lot of me, Nancy to feed a poodle for a year and a half. I'm sorry, if you didn't see that coming. I was setting you up for that because I was amazed. That and so and you got a surgery. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I my assumption was you found them in Jarno, late enough that you were so far down the road for the surgery. It seemed too late to turn back.

Nanci 1:09:47
Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what happened. And I was at the point where like I was on Manjaro for about four months and my surgery date was coming up and I did struggle with it. I kind of went back and forth in my head and the the fact that I was so scared of regaining the weight after either being on Manjaro for a year, or having a weight loss surgery, I knew that the weight loss surgery was pretty permanent. And I did try to, you know, read to see what kind of studies and data there was with Manjaro weaning off of it or, you know, maintaining and there's not a lot of information out there yet about it hasn't been,

Scott Benner 1:10:38
I, I've come to the conclusion that if I have to be on a maintenance dose of this for the rest of my life, I don't even think I care. Like, like, Yeah, and if I grow a tail out of my forehead, I'll be thin as a pin with a tail on my forehead.

Nanci 1:10:56
You will look fabulous.

Scott Benner 1:10:58
I'll just accessorize it. I'll start hanging blink from it. I'll be like, that's my, that's my ozempic tail. Whatever. No, I mean, honestly, I don't. It's

Nanci 1:11:08
and then you can sell things on your podcast, like Facebook group,

Scott Benner 1:11:13
like, Hey, everybody, like us, we go V and yeah, you're gonna grow with tail out of your forehead. But here are these beautiful socks to keep them warm during the winter. And I'll just thread it into a conversation. So you'll never even know I'm selling them to you. Yeah, I mean, there are no advertisers. Right now, for any GLP ones on the podcast, I have to tell you, somebody came along here wanting to, I'd be happy to take an ad for that. But I would also tell you, it's an advertisement. But no, seriously, as far as I know, there are no side effects, the GLP is that make things grow out of your forehead. And certainly enough of the world has taken this up that we're going to find out, I think the next thing that you're going to see is doctors who do weight loss surgeries, you're going to start seeing them, like kind of chirp about these injections and tell you there's something wrong with them, because it's going to cut into their bottom line pretty heartily. Because really like ozempic, or we go Veerman jhana, what they're doing is they making you feel full faster, which is what the surgery does. But they also have the benefit of they're somehow impacting your hippocampus, they're literally telling your brain you're not hungry. And they're is some newer studies that I don't think are complete yet that are saying, also signal to your body that during weight loss to target your fat.

Nanci 1:12:36
Yeah, I did just read that the other day, which is amazing, because that's one of the things that they really watch after you have weight loss surgery is that you lose muscle mass. So that'd be amazing if the GLP ones stopped that

Scott Benner 1:12:53
just literally just anecdotally, but my weight is coming from places that I really struggled to get rid of it from. And so like, my example usually is with I would have just started dieting like aggressively on my own. Mike, my face would have slimmed down first. And then and then I would have like been like, Oh, my midsection is not like changing. And with this thing that was my midsection first. As a matter of fact, my face didn't start slimming down for like two months after that. And it was all coming out of my chest, my sides, my back and my stomach, which were the places like I can't even tell you that my stomach and my chest are on the same plane of existence now. Which is very new for me. That's amazing. Yeah. So anyway, wow. Well, well, okay, I'm sorry. I had to bring this back around again. I started me having these type two conversations. Because I was finding listeners who were basically like, look, I'm type two, but I use insulin. So I started listening to the podcast, and it was really helping me. And so how are you managing right now?

Nanci 1:14:05
So right now, I'm only on one medication called tra Genta. Okay, it's an it's an oral medication. And the reason being is because obviously right after I had my gastric bypass, I couldn't eat I had to it was all liquid. And so I even had a couple of low blood sugar episodes after my surgery. And so I was taken off of everything. And once I started to eat again, and I was consuming some carbs, some sugars. My blood sugar levels did start to go up a little bit. So when I had my three month exam after my gastric bypass, and I saw my Endo, he put me On the agenda and said, Well, let's see how you do with this and then we'll when you come back in six months, we'll look at your blood sugar's I wear libre, too. So I'm my monitor my sugar. And I've had, I have had some instances where if I eat something more Harvey, I've my blood sugar's have gone up some a couple of times over 200. So I'm not really sure if I'll get put back on insulin. But we'll have to wait and see what are your What are your

Scott Benner 1:15:44
fasting blood sugars like?

Nanci 1:15:47
So the last time I had my fasting, it was 121, which is, for me, I feel like really good. Now what I want do I want it to be 90 Of course, like but, and my a one C at my last check was 6.3. Which again, for me, it's really good considering when I went on insulin. It was a point nine Wow. So it's really, really come down quite a bit.

Scott Benner 1:16:26
What do you what do you give credit to here? Weight loss, a change in your diet? And the trajectory? Those three things you think are what's keeping you where you're at?

Nanci 1:16:37
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think the weight loss and the fact that, you know, I'm forced to eat protein, because of the gastric bypass, so you learn that you have to eat protein before anything else. And because I have such a small stomach, I can only eat, you know, like, three to six ounces. And eating some, you know, eating that in chicken, you get full and so I'm not eating. Maybe if we had mashed potatoes or rice that night, I'm not really eating that because I'm eating the chicken and I'm getting full. And so I'm not eating the stuff that would cause my blood sugar to go high. But I have had a couple of instances where I've, you know, said I'm gonna try buy to that sandwich or a bite of that pizza. And I've my blood sugar's have gone up. And I'm not sure if that's just my, you know, like, my body being like, Whoa.

Scott Benner 1:17:49
Alright, are you do you still have your food voice?

Nanci 1:17:53
Um, no, I don't

Scott Benner 1:17:56
just your tastes change a little.

Nanci 1:17:59
I have a food voice in that I do have to still prepare, you know, like, I can't just be willy nilly and throw caution to the wind and just hope that there's food that I can eat. I have to be prepared. So I do have to think about it in that sense. And I definitely feel like there have been times that I have thought, God, I cut my right arm off for a slice of chocolate cake. Like a job, you know, and I don't have the chocolate cake, but I do have that feeling like I really would just want it so bad.

Scott Benner 1:18:43
But work full. Okay, what could you have like a fork full of chocolate cake?

Nanci 1:18:48
Yeah, I probably could. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:18:51
but you're but you don't think you would? If you started you think you'd? So ah, so it's funny. I can't believe I'm doing like I honestly never saw myself as a person who'd be advocating for like medication to change how you eat. I've learned a lot like in these last 10 weeks already. And I there's part of me that feels a little sad because you got your stomach made smaller. Yeah, right. Because if you could have gotten the food voice to go away with with the medication and you would have felt fuller sooner that might have helped you regulate the amount and the types of reading because I'll tell you I made a good decision after good decision this week in those restaurants. I was like I am not eating anything that's fried. I am not eating anything that you know but like I stayed away from a number of different things on purpose and I had a perfectly lovely time. Like at lunch I you know I had like I sat down and I was like, Can I get a a cup of soup and and I think it was like chicken rice soup and kind of a cup of that soup and a half of a turkey sandwich. And and she goes we only serve that At full turkey sandwiches, I was like, Well, if you bring me a full turkey sandwich, you'll be throwing a lot of it away. I'm like, you can do whatever you want. But I'm going to eat half of that cup of soup. And by the way, here's what I want on the bread. Nothing, just put the turkey in there. And I said, like one slice of cheese. She goes, it's gonna come with two slices of cheese, I was coming to one of them away. And I'm like, bring me a little like, I think I put like yellow mustard on the bread a little bit. And they brought up potato chips. And I was like, I don't want these. And she's like, well, they come with the sandwich. I was like, alright, so I had like four potato chips, I had like three quarters and a half of a turkey sandwich and half of a cup of soup. And I was like, Oh, good, like, just like two in the afternoon. And I thought, Well, that's good. I don't need to eat any more today. But I could still eat it. The same thing?

Nanci 1:20:51
Like no, and I totally understand what you're saying. And I do get sad myself sometimes. And think that if I had given it a little bit more time on the Manjaro, or if I hadn't been going through the process to get the gastric bypass, and again, it's a long process. So I mean, you really have to be committed, and, you know, to be that committed, and then, you know, at at the point where you're gonna get it to say, No, I think I'm, I'm just gonna try this over here instead. You know, it just made me a little bit like, scared and nervous, because I had felt like, I'd been on such a roller coaster for such a long time. And I just knew that, for me having the gastric bypass would give me some permanency. And in my life, like, Yeah, I know that sounds drastic. And to a lot of people it is it is like people are so put off by the gastric bypass. And I always tell people, you have to make your own decision. Like you have to do what's right for you. But I will say that I have people in my life that I have been pushing to go and get one of the GE LPs. I mean, I have been like, Look, you have been struggling, and you're, you know, younger than me, and you need some help. And these these medications help. You need to go talk to your doctor about being on this. But there's a lot of people Scott that, you know, they they really have like a negative attitude when it comes to getting anything to help with losing weight. Like they just like you said before, yeah, they they just think What's matter with you? Why can't you just do what on your own, like, get a grip.

Scott Benner 1:22:49
We were all parented poorly. But I first of all, I've become a drug pusher, I play it to other people, my family are already gotten. Yeah. And they type they had type two diabetes, like, go get this, like, you know what I mean? Right, please. And, but But your point about not wanting to do it, like the part that fascinates me, like burns right through my brain when you say that, it's like, they'll say, Oh, well, I don't, I shouldn't have to take an injection to lose weight, but they'll have gastroparesis from their type two, or kidney failure from there, type two and go well, like well as the cost of doing business. You know, it's not like like, if, if you're a person who, for whatever reason, is not eating in a way that leads to health. And you're telling me that injecting something once a week, and I can't tell you how easy it is, like I do it on the podcast, it's click, wait, click out done. I don't think about it again, I don't even like feel the needle, I don't even know what's happening. And you're telling me if you could do that, and avoid a kidney failure one day, that would be a bridge too far. And but, but the kidney failure is not like it's a it's a fascinating way to think about something incorrectly. Like I'm not saying I'm not saying it's optimal to have to take a drug to make this happen. But you know what, it's not optimal for a person with I don't know, bipolar disorder to have to take a drug not to have those issues, but that's the situation they find themselves in. So I mean, is there a phrase play the ball where it lies? Like you don't mean like yeah, you don't want to decide we all don't get to be you know, six feet tall and a muscular podcast are making $9 billion a year telling everybody to try harder like like that guy's thing. i My thing is I don't eat much food and I'm fat. Like Like yeah, not okay. You don't II mean so. Anyway, and then around type two diabetes just as well. Like, what you what you hear is, it's why I'm making that that type two series and why I'm talking to more people with type two Overwhelmingly, people think of insulin as failure. Oh, you know, if everything else fails, I'll try insulin maybe, well, 10 years from now. When everything else fails, including your kidneys, then yeah, like you're gonna think, Oh, I wish I would have used insulin 10 years ago because I guarantee Nancy, I put you in a fucking time machine. Yeah, you're out there looking for it. Yeah,

Nanci 1:25:25
you don't you don't know how many people looked at me sideways when I said, Yeah, you know, I finally went to the endo and he put me on insulin and they were like, you know, they just were like, what?

Scott Benner 1:25:40
Well, let me say this for you fuck them. Okay, right. Yeah. I care if you stay alive. They care if you airway. Yeah. If you don't do it the right way. Then what what's the point? The point is being alive, you moron. It's crazy. Your walk around Nancy and thing? A lot of people can't think. Yes.

Nanci 1:26:01
Daily. What is happening daily.

Scott Benner 1:26:06
It's so lost in the wrong part of a conversation.

Nanci 1:26:10
I don't know. I let me let me lay it

Scott Benner 1:26:14
out for people listening. Staying alive. That's first. That's the goal every day, the goal? Free Day. It's your first goal. Gotta stay alive next day. Stay alive and be healthy. Okay, yeah. And be nice to people do things, the blah, blah, blah, work. I want you to work hard. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I don't think that it's a valuable thing. Or if I ever said this, I assumed this was obvious. But I don't think it's an it's a valuable thing. To you know, eat every horrible thing in the world. And think, well, I'll just inject this and it'll it'll counteract it. By the way, that's not how this stuff works. It's, it's not like it does not like it makes it go away. Like I could eat too much food today, my stomach would hurt. And I would probably gain weight. And so the drugs not going to stop that from happening. I could physically pushed through it just like you could physically. There are plenty of ways to cheat around the surgery you had?

Nanci 1:27:14
Well, not really. I mean, you get pretty sick. That's, I mean, that's the one deterrent that is is a little bit different is

Scott Benner 1:27:23
you haven't heard you get all blending down like well, crap. Yeah, I'm drinking them and stuff like that.

Nanci 1:27:28
Yeah. But um, I will say in my own personal case, and I pretty much know, I you know, like, I've taken a bite of something that it just didn't sit right. And yeah, and you know, you your body gives you a reaction, whether it be just like you get really, really hot. And you almost feel like a little bit like dizzy. You know, some people have like, they'll throw up. Luckily for me, I haven't had any of that throwing up thing, thank goodness. But just a really like, Dizzy, hot feeling of not feeling good at all. And I And again, you know, a lot of people will listen to me say that and be like, and you have to live your life like that. You're gonna be like that for the rest of your life. But, you know, don't feel bad for me. I made the decision. And I I'm okay with it. You know, I'm fine with it.

Scott Benner 1:28:35
Also, the alternative was what happened your mom?

Nanci 1:28:39
Exactly, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and

Scott Benner 1:28:42
it's everybody wants things exactly the way they want them. Right. So it's like, well, I You should be able to eat whatever you want. And be healthy. I'm like, Okay, well, in the that's not working.

Nanci 1:28:52
Right and fantasyland. Right. Right?

Scott Benner 1:28:55
So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for like, anything I can do to stay on. Listen, you would never, I think good for you that you got the surgery. Like, if that's what you want to do, man. Good for you.

Nanci 1:29:07
You know? Yeah, I mean, that's what I say to you know, other people. And I also say to, you know, all the naysayers, it's like, you know, you have to make a decision that's right for you, ultimately. And I'm, I'm happy for all of the people that are having success with the GLP ones. And again, I've like you, I felt like, you know, I'm pushing drugs on people, but I have also been like, look, y'all need to get this good stuff. But, and I answer questions for anybody that has them about the gastric bypass. You know, it's not for everybody, every everything is not for everybody. But you know, we're all just doing the best that we can and try and you know, to be here and live our lives and I have two beautiful granddaughters that you know, absolutely adore and I just want to be around for them. Men want to watch every moment of their life and be involved in it and be healthy. And so, you know, for me, it was the best thing to do.

Scott Benner 1:30:09
Yeah, plus, someone's got to cover that nut on that poodle. When the people working, I mean, right, exactly. To deal with you guys die. I don't know, trust me, it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna eat their shit out the backyard. That's what it's gonna do. And it'll be fine, by the way, probably right? You let that pool out of that house right now? It would be Yeah, it'd be like, it'll be alright.

Nanci 1:30:39
Yeah, life goes on. All right.

Scott Benner 1:30:42
I really appreciate you doing this very much. It's a great conversation. And, you know, I just I'm trying very hard to I don't want to say stupid things that people say all the time, like D stigmatize, and like, blah, blah, blah. I just want people with type two diabetes, to feel comfortable asking questions, finding answers for themselves, and doing something that's going to make a meaningful impact on their life, not something that maybe will help them eight years from now after they try weightwatchers keto 19 Other things and then go, oh, by the way, none of that work, and now I'm starting to have bad bad health impacts, and I still am no closer to an answer. So, you know, I don't know it just,

Nanci 1:31:27
and I totally, totally appreciate the fact that, you know, obviously, you started this podcast for type one, and, but I can't tell you how much I appreciate that you have taken the time to talk to, and listen to type two diabetics and do exactly what you just said is, you know, erase some of the stigma around it. And, and make people you know, feel like they're just not failures, I've really appreciate because I felt like such a failure a lot. And then I listened to a lot of your podcasts. And even though, you know, is mostly for type ones, I got so much helpful information, and also just learned so much and thought, wow, there's just this world is so big, and there's so many people out there. But there's so many people like me. So

Scott Benner 1:32:25
absolutely. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I am evolved enough now not even make a stupid joke. Say something about me. My first inclination, that little child inside of me wants to say something very dumb. The first thing I thought to say was, well, yeah, I'm terrific. You don't have to say. I just appreciate that it's reaching people. And that it's yes. And I'll say this, like, Look, you should be eating better foods, simple foods, like you know, don't don't eat a ton of processed food and flour and sugar and all that stuff. And you should be getting some exercise, right, like, Get out Get moving like all that. Yep. But if that's not working, adding something is not. It's not some sort of a sin. Yes, exactly. And the people around you who like Nancy, like ran into who are gonna give you crap about it. I will tell you the same thing. The same thing I send to a mother. Recently on the show mother called, called in. Yeah, like it's a ham radio. Sorry. Where was it there just a mother comes on the show to talk about her kid being like bullied at school, right? And she kind of went with the like, you know, hippie, like, Yo, well, you have to understand Baba Mon, I was like, fuck those kids. I was. I was like, I said, you know, try this. And by the way, I heard back from her. And rainbows and hippies worked for her kid, which is terrific. But my perspective. Part of my perspective was, is we don't care about people who don't care about us. Yeah, like right so if you need to do something, Nancy to better your life. And there are people around you who would give you crap about it. I don't care what they think. I gotta be like, they're gonna be alive. Like like, Yeah, I'll be dead and what they'll be happy with how I accomplished it. Like what do you write? Do you care what other people think? I just don't think I think it's insane. Like if anybody came after me and said like, you can't take we've taken we go Vyas cheating, I'd be like I don't hear you. What, here's what I hear. My chest and my stomach appear to be on the same line. I feel better. I move better. Right knee doesn't hurt as much. And I couldn't possibly care. What any, there's no, there's no one that could come to me now. And shame me about what I'm doing. That's awesome. Yeah. And by the way, if I do grow a tail out of the side of my forehead, 10 years from now, you know what, I'll say I'll go Huh? Huh, maybe that was a misstep. But but but But if I'm healthy and alive, I'd be like, You know what, I'm alright, because I don't know what's gonna happen. But I know that men, especially men who are shaped like me and carry their weight, where I carry my weight, tend to die of heart attacks. And I also exactly happened to know because my wife forced me into looking into my birth my mother years ago, that my birth mother became despondent after giving me up for adoption, which led to a life of obesity. And it led to her on a table trying to get your surgery. And she and she coded and died during the surge in are 14, that's terrible. And I can tell I feel badly telling it dispassionately because I don't know her as my mother obviously. But, but that So okay, so she had a heart attack from like, bah, bah, bah. So what am I doing? Like, I don't want that to happen. Like you said earlier. I've got kids and I might have grandchildren one day or right, you know, like, maybe not, but also I want to see what like the iPhone 25 looks like and what you want to see if they can put like a nuclear reactor and an electric car. I'm dying to see if that happens. You know, like, I'm trying to stay here. The alternative. Yes, it's over. Like that's it. And for those of you who think like there's an afterlife, that's great. I also don't want to be chubby in the afterlife. Okay, so I'm trying to I'm trying to get all right, well,

Nanci 1:36:27
you want to be a spelt ghost?

Scott Benner 1:36:30
Well, yeah. Okay. Yes, that's what I want. Dammit. I want to look nice when I'm dead and floating around the house. We're like Casper are more like, like embodiment? I don't

Nanci 1:36:45
know from the movie Ghost. You want to be more like Patrick Swayze?

Scott Benner 1:36:49
I don't think I'm getting there. But he's a handsome man. Although his brother not nearly as handsome. Really? You don't know his brother? I do not. I feel bad. I believe he's still alive. So let's not go too far down. But before we leave Patrick Swayze he's brother.

Nanci 1:37:11
Apparently he did not get the good looks. His name's Dodd family. Okay, John.

Scott Benner 1:37:16
Okay. John. Dan, God bless you. You're never gonna hear this. But Don looks like Patrick. But made out of spare parts. I don't know how to say that.

Nanci 1:37:33
Well, now I have to immediately go on when you

Scott Benner 1:37:37
really see a super handsome person. And I mean, for male or female, a very handsome person like their eyes, their forehead, their nose, their lips. They all match. Right? Right. And then Don Swayze looks like at the end of the day, God had about five face parts. They were all attractive but didn't go together. And he was like, listen, we gotta get out of here. Just stick these on this one and let's go. Right, like so he looks like Patrick, but it's not as smooth. She's so funny. By no means xenon. Attractive, man. But if you only knew Don Swayze, you'd think as a handsome guy, but you're standing next to Patrick Swayze. And all of a sudden, you're like, What the hell happened to that guy? Right. Like, which is unfair, because Patrick Swayze looks like, I mean, he's dead. But he was like,

Nanci 1:38:22
yeah, he's good looking man.

Scott Benner 1:38:24
Are you handsome man is what? I'm sorry. That's all. I just don't think I'm gonna get that handsome. I think I'm gonna look like I'm gonna look like Don Swayze. When I get fit. Okay. Yeah. Which, God bless I go for that. Yeah. All right, man. See, I know for one for sure you and I had a conversation about weight that most people don't have in 2023. And I loved it. So

Nanci 1:38:44
me too. Good. I'm glad it was amazing.

Scott Benner 1:38:46
Hold on one second.

I hope you're enjoying the Type Two diabetes stories. I know I enjoyed talking to Nancy. Thank you very much to contour for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast contour next.com forward slash juice box. Check out that contour next meter and those Second Chance test strips and of course, touched by type one.org. Come out and see me on September 16. It's completely free and we're gonna have a great day, I promise. Hey, if you're just finding the podcast now you have pre diabetes or type two diabetes, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group. It's more than its name suggests. We have a ton of type twos there. Come find out more.

If you have type two or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track. up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame episode 869 medical team 874 fuelling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889 We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course you know Jenny is a certified diabetes care and education specialist. She is a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that, share it with a friend or get started today. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use a device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases

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#907 Type Two Stories: Karen

Karen has type 2 diabetes and a lot of stories.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 907 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Welcome back everyone. This is the fourth installment of my type two Story series. We've already heard from John, LeAnn and Michael, and today Karen, a person living with type two diabetes. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, and you're a US resident, please consider going to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and completing the survey. Every completed survey helps someone with type one diabetes, it may help you and it definitely will help the Juicebox Podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. juice box podcast listeners save 35% off their entire order at cozy earth.com when they use the offer code juice box at checkout and you'll save 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com forward slash juice box just by going to that link. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven dexcom.com forward slash juice box get yourself the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter has been wearing for years. dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com forward slash juicebox you need and deserve a blood glucose meter that is accurate and easy to use. I had an extra contour next gen at the house that I just gave to a family friend who was concerned that they had pre diabetes on the very first day woke up fasting blood sugar 119. Now they know what they're looking for. They're going to be testing all week and writing down their numbers. You could too contour next one.com forward slash juicebox.

Karen 2:26
My name is Karen and I am 69 years old. I used to be a teacher and retired as of 2006. I'm a type two diabetic. And I guess that's a good start. Because Scott last meal I think

Scott Benner 2:46
it's a perfect start. Thank you. Okay, while you're 69 And how long have you had type two?

Karen 2:55
Well, do you want to count? prediabetes, but um, basically my diagnosis with insulin was 2009.

Scott Benner 3:05
So you've been using insulin since 2009? When right? When did you start having to doctor for this? When was it? When did it begin?

Karen 3:14
Um, about five years before that? Okay. 2004.

Scott Benner 3:22
Wow. 18 years ago. All right. What is the first? Well, were you working then? You teaching? Yes, you were Yes. What did you teach?

Karen 3:38
Mostly elementary physical education.

Scott Benner 3:41
Nice. Well, that sounds like fun, actually. Or is it not?

Karen 3:44
Well, people say, oh, there must be a lot of fun. But really, if I'm playing with the kids, I'm not doing my job.

Scott Benner 3:53
So the fun parts not there, do they? But that was a long time ago back then you let them throw balls at each other and everything right, like dodgeball?

Karen 4:03
Well, occasionally, but we usually use firewalls, so they didn't hurt.

Scott Benner 4:08
I don't think they let you throw balls at each other anymore.

Karen 4:10
No,

Scott Benner 4:12
I don't think so. I don't think you're even like that.

Karen 4:15
I don't know if you can even get hugs anymore. I used to get like 40 or 50 hugs a day. Really, but yeah, but the thing that Well, I had mostly kindergarteners, but the thing that I missed the most was if I dropped something like 24 kids would die to pick it up. Or if I lost something, I can't find my needle race to get it for me. Karen I

Scott Benner 4:49
don't want to be creepy but I could have used a couple of those kids to put my socks on this morning. That would have been a go.

Karen 4:54
There you go and they would have been happy to do that If he would have fought me would have fought to do.

Scott Benner 5:02
Mr. Scott's back hurts. I've got the left one. Okay, so what's the first? Well, since it's funny, type two is different than type one my questions. Alright, so prior to 2004 You live in a life had you had children? No, no. Okay. Would you consider yourself in shape out of shape? A good eater, a bad eater? Like, how did you think of yourself as an adult?

Karen 5:32
I was a pretty good eater, sometimes not. But you know, we all do that. And I've always fought with weight. But at the same time, being told that I created my type two really irritates me a little because the incidence of type two is anywhere from 11 to 17%. From what I've seen, and that's a small amount of fat people who have diabetes, and there's a lot of others who are fat who don't have it. So to say that they're still the cause, because I'm not sure is really fair.

Scott Benner 6:16
Karen, I like your math on that. You're like, listen, there's 10 of us here. Two of us have diabetes. We're all fat. Yeah. So is there. Type Two in your family line? No, no? Okay. Well, okay, you start You shocked me there. Okay, that's fine.

Karen 6:39
And some great grandmother had type two. Well, that's a great grandmother. Well, that's. Well, yeah, but she had 10 children, too. So gak in the 30s. You know,

Scott Benner 6:51
Karen, what are you saying? She used herself up and everything came for? Kind of 30 she had? How many of her? Do you know much about her? Did any of the children not survive?

Karen 7:04
No, all of the children survived except one who was killed at age 19. In the war? No, he was killed on a train track in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you know, in a snowstorm

Scott Benner 7:21
in the snow. Well, you

Karen 7:23
know, you know how families tell story. They share a lot of things.

Scott Benner 7:28
It's interesting. I I always wonder how accurate any of those old stories are that have been passed down? You don't I mean, like, I'm talking to my mom, and she can't. She's not getting right. What we did last week, and I think, yeah. Tell Tell me the story about your uncle again. You're sure about live.

Karen 7:48
I've had more than one, you know, story about that. And he was he is probably drunk at the time. And snowstorm on the train tracks. And, um, you know, I looked it up online. One time when ancestry he had a free thing, and I saw his death certificate, so I'm pretty sure that was accurate. Because he had, he had been asked to go to play with John Philip Sousa is banned, but he was only 15 years old at that time. Oh, yeah. Like when can that? Really? Yeah.

Scott Benner 8:31
Okay. All right. Well, that's great. Oh, sorry. Sorry. We're getting too far away. No, that's your great grandmother had type two diabetes that we

Karen 8:39
and 10 kids

Scott Benner 8:41
and a really tired vagina imagine so.

Karen 8:46
And she she and her husband were immigrants. So

Scott Benner 8:53
wow, from where? Finland and are so you are? Are you finished or part finish? Half finish. Very nice. I appreciate you saying that. So we can title the episode.

Karen 9:11
Well, I'll have a friendly Anders in the up we'll be happy about that.

Scott Benner 9:16
I'm just wondering right now how many people know who John Philip Sousa was?

Karen 9:21
Yeah, that's true. I was impressed when I was in in orchestra. So

Scott Benner 9:27
Oh, I love it makes sense. Okay, so you in 2004 start experiencing symptoms. What are those symptoms?

Karen 9:37
Well, it was mostly my blood tests showed that my glucose levels are a little high.

Scott Benner 9:43
So you're just in your, in your yearly physical or whatever. And the doctor starts talking about like, Oh, you're pre diabetic, that kind of thing.

Karen 9:53
Exactly. Okay. And he put me on Metformin.

Scott Benner 9:56
And did that do well first of all, do you remember what Pre diabetic meant back then what were they telling you a one C was?

Karen 10:03
I really don't know. Okay. I don't know, back then if they really set a one, see

Scott Benner 10:10
if that was the measurement or if they were doing were they do fasting? Were they doing like a fasting blood glucose maybe

Karen 10:17
more or less to to be diagnosed? I think I did that. But that was right away. I should I would do my fingers check and have blood glucose of 115.

Scott Benner 10:34
And that pretty regularly regularly. So they put you on they put you on Metformin. Wow. Did you experience any weight loss from the Metformin? No, no. Did you experience a lessening of your blood sugar? Did it help with that?

Karen 10:51
I don't think so.

Scott Benner 10:52
No. And how long did they leave you just on Metformin? Five years? And you don't feel like it did anything for you? Not really

Karen 11:00
well, it gave me diarrhea.

Scott Benner 11:05
Karen, you and I are gonna have fun I can tell.

Karen 11:10
I mean, yeah, it was, you know, I found that found more bathrooms people must have sensed like in stores or whatever, where they said no public bathrooms. They must have sensed urgency in my eyes or face. Because they would let me use bathrooms. I have seen bathrooms that you would not think

Scott Benner 11:31
existed. Yeah. What's behind this sheet in the in the clothing store? Oh, my goodness. All right. All right. This is where they keep the mop bucket. Okay. Absolutely. So you had you had stomach pain and loose stool? To say the least? And yeah, but no, but no. improvement. So what was said to you, as best you can remember as long time ago, but as best you can remember what was said to you about? I'm going to use Metformin. And then when you'd go in subsequently for other visits, what was the conversation like?

Karen 12:13
Well, just, you know, that I was doing okay, it was my primary care physician, who had been with me for a while I started with him. I hadn't had a real physician for a while. And when he started practice, I finally had some pain in my chest kind of more or less at the top of my stomach, you know, like a reflux thing. So, you know, I'm thinking heart, whatever. So I went in to him, and he's, he's been my doctor ever since. And now his kids who were about to at the time are adults. And through college, and so on. So it's been a few years.

Scott Benner 13:03
And so you're with this guy for a very long time. But for five years, you don't see. Well, I guess there's no, there's no worsening of it. Is that right? Right. So they're so in their mind, I'm guessing what that meant was, you would have gotten worse without the Metformin. So therefore, the Metformin is helping. I guess so. Yeah. But, but my point, Karen, is that there's not a lot of conversation around a lot of explanation, right, you're not right, you don't leave there feeling like you really understand what's happening to you. Right. Right. Okay. Right. Did the stomach problems ever go away with the Metformin? No, it's stuck with you forever.

Karen 13:48
But I also had reflux diagnosed separately, you know, right. Without taking the Metformin. So, later,

Scott Benner 13:58
let me ask you this 2004 is Oh, god, what's 2022? Give me a second. For give me a sum on this. Alright, so, um, so one, that's the one I'm accessing 818 years ago. That's not what I want to know those 69 minus 18. That's one. You were 51 when this started, okay, so,

Karen 14:24
but I should tell you something, go ahead. When I was 44 I had bad hemorrhoids. I had a hemorrhoid ectomy. internal external fistula, a whole smear, no bleeding problems. My mother has bleeding disorder that was discovered in Finland. So I was tested for it. Yeah, false. The doctor who tested me for looked at my hemorrhoid ectomy results and said, Oh, you had a very bloody sir GE no problems. You don't have von Willebrand disease. So,

Scott Benner 15:06
okay, hold on, let me carry on. Let me go slower here. Hold on a second. I think I have this. So, and again, we're having a good time. So you had very bad internal and external hemorrhoids that had excised somehow. And, and your mom has van Wilbur brands,

Karen 15:25
buying Willow brands, as do I Okay, but it's a bleeding disorder. Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:31
But the the doctor who examined you, I'm guessing you're getting ready to tell me just looked at your surgery and said, What? What were they? What were they inferring from the notes from your surgery?

Karen 15:44
He said, You had a very bloody surgery, and you didn't have any bleeding problems. So along with your testing, I don't think you have been well grants.

Scott Benner 15:58
Okay, because he thought that a bloody surgery would have led to something that would have indicated this.

Karen 16:04
Right. Okay. Now, two weeks before I saw him. I had quit taking birth control pills, because of my painful periods because I had had and Demetrius Okay. Okay. And well, I had the hemorrhoid ectomy. I was taking birth control pills to try to control the

Scott Benner 16:26
pain. Yeah, the pain not the bleeding. Monthly. No. Okay.

Karen 16:30
No. In fact, the only symptom I ever had was nosebleeds when I was a kid. And even then, it was iffy. You know, I had nosebleeds and yeah, it happened after I had a tonsillectomy. So before I had the tonsillectomy, I hit your eggs every night. But after I hadn't had select me, I did have to go back in for some clotting in my throat. But then I was fine.

Scott Benner 17:03
How old? Were you around the tonsillectomy? Like regular age? Four. Oh, really? Okay. Can I go backwards for a second to ask a question? Certainly. Did the removal of the hemorrhoids help with your issues?

Karen 17:18
While it was very painful, and I couldn't sit very well, I could stand but I couldn't sit very well. So yes.

Scott Benner 17:26
So So by the time you had gotten to the, to getting the, the procedure, you were not able to sit at that point.

Karen 17:36
Not very well, well, I kept shifting or you know, like, if I went to a movie, I was constantly moving. You know,

Scott Benner 17:45
was there bleeding with the hemorrhoids or just paying?

Karen 17:49
Very little bleeding? Okay, but he gave me some nitroglycerin ointment that worked. So that helped with the pain and the bleeding travels. zere.

Scott Benner 18:03
Interesting. Okay. So you weren't losing blood from the hemorrhoids? No. Okay. You were just in pain. And when you sat down, you were tilted one way or the other. Right? Yes. Okay. The endometriosis was being treated. I guess I'm making air quotes with a birth control pill was well, hopefully but it didn't really help. I was gonna say it didn't really help much. Right. Right. Okay.

Karen 18:35
So in February, I had a diagnostic laparoscopy which showed that I had endometriosis. For sure.

Scott Benner 18:47
Do they do something for that? Or? Well,

Karen 18:51
the next thing was a hysterectomy. In April

Scott Benner 18:58
How old were you then?

Karen 19:00
44 Okay. Oh no. 4535

Scott Benner 19:04
And you did you did this to me?

Karen 19:07
Yes. Yeah. Total complete. Self Pingle Oh for correcting me, et cetera.

Scott Benner 19:16
Wait, what did you just that's the

Karen 19:18
whole whole surgery name and got a whole you know, 20 letter. Description.

Scott Benner 19:27
I'm looking this one. I mean, you said oh, it was like you said nitroglycerin pills at one point. So I was like, what is happening here?

Karen 19:38
Was it it wasn't pills. It was anointment ointment. Excuse me. That's okay.

Scott Benner 19:43
I don't see the hysterectomy other name for it? Well, they

Karen 19:47
probably don't list it because it's my it's on my sheet.

Scott Benner 19:55
Wait, no hold on my diagnosis. Is it an offer? To me, overarching Yeah, so I won't be gone this far. Hold on a second Karen let's figure it out.

Karen 20:08
I think so Pingle refers to the fallopian tubes or something.

Scott Benner 20:13
It says the total hysterectomy is the surgeon removes your uterus and your cervix but not your ovaries. total hysterectomy is most common type hysterectomy with Oh, for ectomy, the surgery moves your uterus, one or both of your ovaries, and sometimes your fallopian tubes. Okay,

Karen 20:32
I don't have any of it. They just, it's gone anymore. It's all Yeah, it's all gone. And I had an appendectomy at the same time because my one ovary was bound into with scar tissue with the app, appendix. Holy

Scott Benner 20:49
crap. Karen, or do you have any brothers or sisters?

Karen 20:53
Yes. Brother,

Scott Benner 20:55
does he have any significant health issues?

Karen 20:57
Other than bipolar? No?

Scott Benner 21:00
Interesting. You sound like, it's so interesting. I don't want to say what I was gonna say. I'm waiting till we talk a little longer.

Karen 21:06
That's what I that's what I always tell my doctors I'm I'm always interested.

Scott Benner 21:13
That's for sure. So you're so your brother hasn't had his butt cut open or anything else like that? Okay,

Karen 21:18
no. All right.

Scott Benner 21:20
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Karen 24:44
My mom had hemorrhoid ectomy TWICE,

Scott Benner 24:47
TWICE. She loved it so much. She went back Yeah,

Karen 24:51
sir. In fact, my doctor at that time said this will be the worst pain you'll ever have. worse than childbirth or, you know, which I haven't had but

Scott Benner 25:06
take his word for his right. Yeah, five stars. Five stars. I love it will return. You tell me about the pain. How long did it last afterwards?

Karen 25:18
Well until you could really pass stool, it was bad. Because you're, I was afraid to push it off.

Scott Benner 25:27
I bet you know, days weeks,

Karen 25:31
probably at least a week

Scott Benner 25:33
and pain. Pain medication slows down your bowel motility. So I assume you don't want too much of that either. Right?

Karen 25:40
Right. But I still did.

Scott Benner 25:44
Heroin? No.

Karen 25:49
No. But he he had a step down. The surgeon was very good. I liked him a lot. He had a step down procedure. Like after a week or so I called and said, I'm running out of pain pills do How can I have some more? And they said, No, you can't have any more of those. But we have something else. Well, it all worked. As he stepped me down. It worked. So he obviously had it figured out

Scott Benner 26:16
and they didn't return. Is that right? No. Oh, good for you. That's excellent. Did you change your diet at all in in? Like, go with more fiber or like that kind of an idea?

Karen 26:28
Um, yes, but not just because of the hammer deck to me. Just just because I've always been fed tend tended towards him.

Scott Benner 26:38
I don't know what to say. I don't think I'm supposed to say that. But it's okay for you to like it's okay. I know what you're How tall are you?

Karen 26:49
I heat six.

Scott Benner 26:51
And how much do you weigh now?

Karen 26:52
Right now I weighed about 270.

Scott Benner 26:56
And through your whole life around that weight? No, no. How so? Where were you say in your 40s?

Karen 27:03
Um, well, depending on when but after I had the hysterectomy, I had lost way beforehand. But I was very, very thin because I bled all day, lost a lot of blood had to have blood products. And I was so thin. Yeah, people said I was anorexic. And when I was the ASEAN, I weighed 139 pounds because I tend to be very large bone. So, you know, I'm not saying large boned in the sense that some people say I'm saying I really am. I've never, ever had a boyfriend whose hands were bigger than my

Scott Benner 27:49
shoulders, things like that. You're saying? Yes. Okay, so when did you find out you had von Willebrand? I mean, you knew your mom had it. So

Karen 27:59
right. Well, after I bled all day with a hysterectomy, I was I had a hysterectomy. First thing in the morning. And then last thing at night. I went back in just before midnight to have a hematoma evacuation. In other words to take out the blood and clotting.

Scott Benner 28:21
Okay, that sounds terrible. I'm sorry, that just shocked me for some reason.

Karen 28:26
It was kind of serious. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that the doctor that I had had been my OBGYN residency supervisor, he does have some time in his office. And so they knew each. And this doctor also knew my mother. So he was familiar with von Willebrand and he was an ontology specialist. So he knew quite a bit about federal grants.

Scott Benner 29:00
And how do they help you with that? Or Can't they?

Karen 29:04
You can't give me too much after the fact. So he gave me a packed red blood cells. And I felt great.

Scott Benner 29:12
Really? Do you have a lot of them through your life? A lot of that what I would describe as like low iron feeling tired gaining weight, like from the from the iron?

Karen 29:24
Well, I do but not necessarily from that yet reason.

Scott Benner 29:29
Why do you think you do?

Karen 29:32
Um, I think from well, I have depression, bipolar. I'm fighting thyroid right now, which is why my weight is up, I think, because I can't seem to follow anything. And I'm, you know, I just think there's other things going on. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Plus, the meds I take make you tighter,

Scott Benner 29:57
right. Thyroid you've learned about recently in your Life.

Karen 30:01
Yes, I just had an ultrasound on Tuesday.

Scott Benner 30:04
Are they calling it Hashimotos? or hypothyroidism?

Karen 30:07
I haven't. I haven't heard anything but I'm taking levothyroxine

Scott Benner 30:12
you're taking that? Said helping?

Karen 30:15
Yeah, somewhat but I'm on 50 micrograms. Okay, slowly. Yeah, slowly increasing, hopefully

Scott Benner 30:25
good. What what point did you realize you were depressed?

Karen 30:32
This would be after the, the. The history.

Scott Benner 30:40
Oh, I was gonna say the first time somebody dug into your butt because that would have depress the hell out of me. I would have been like, I mean, no,

Karen 30:47
that was like

Scott Benner 30:51
that's an indication of how bad the hemorrhoids were if they were like, so you're gonna put a speculum where and then cut? What sounds good. Hey, get in there, buddy. Okay, so after the hysterectomy. Had you had no indication of, of depression prior to that?

Karen 31:10
No, not really. Worrying. I was always super active did 1800 things? Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:17
yeah. Do you think it was a shift in your hormones that cause that? No, no. Was it the loss of the idea that you could have a baby? Did it depress you that way?

Karen 31:28
Well, that was a little bit depressing. But I already knew that. At age 44, you're kind of you know, thinking that yes, that anyway. And if you don't have a boyfriend or a husband or whatever, I don't think it's a wise thing to necessarily have a child. And

Scott Benner 31:46
did you want children?

Karen 31:49
Of course. As an elementary teacher,

Scott Benner 31:54
that might be enough kids. You know what I mean?

Karen 31:57
Yeah. I wouldn't have taken them home.

Scott Benner 32:02
Unless you never did illegally. That's nice. Oh, no, I wouldn't do the I didn't think you would kind of second. second ago. You just listed off a bunch more things. So I'm picking through them. So your your brother's bipolar. But you are? At what age did you realize you were

Karen 32:22
this would be at 44?

Scott Benner 32:24
Everything sort of happened at once? Hmm.

Karen 32:27
Yes. That's why I kind of interrupted you and went ahead and said, Wait a minute, but there's one more surgery

Scott Benner 32:34
that year, which was a gallbladder gallbladder took it out again.

Karen 32:40
Yes. Okay. And at that time, because of my reflux, they did something called a Nissen fundoplication. Where they wrap a part of the fundus, from the stomach around your esophagus to make like a false fails. Okay. It doesn't really work. But there is one plus I cannot lie.

Scott Benner 33:07
You can't finally, something happen on the positive side.

Karen 33:12
It sounds like a really weird. Plus, but you know, it's like, Oh, well.

Scott Benner 33:19
Aaron, I have to tell you, because your story is going to be part of the type two Story series. It's just going to be called type two stories and then Karen, but if it wasn't, I was gonna call it no fun. Does.

Karen 33:33
That would be good. Thank you. I wouldn't mind.

Scott Benner 33:37
It's so. Okay. I have sort of a big question for you. Yes. At some point in your life, do you just think, well, I got it. I gotta shift body. Like, like, I have way too many things wrong with me. And there's a lot of stuff here. Like, I mean, listen, it's easy to look in from the outside, right and see a person who's overweight and say, Oh, they don't try hard enough. Or they whatever. Exactly, yeah. But you have but I don't feel that way. No, I don't you have a good attitude? I don't imagine you do. But I'm just saying like you have so many things wrong with you like medically, that I'm starting to lose track of it where I'm writing it down. Because I had some notes I had to keep so I was like, Oh, this this is just the type to interview. I won't need my whiteboard. And now I'm writing in the gaps.

Karen 34:32
Thyroid I told you I told my doctors I'm always interested

Scott Benner 34:35
Well, no kidding. Gallbladder reflux, thyroid, endometriosis. Hemorrhoids that require surgery, bipolar, and depression and I missing anything.

Karen 34:50
Um, well, I also have some more autoimmune type things like I have localized psoriasis.

Scott Benner 35:00
Psoriasis I forgot one little brands. Okay, what else?

Karen 35:06
Um, I think that's about it because the thyroid we already covered. And when I went in to see the, the endocrinologist last month, because before that my PCP handled all of the diabetic problems or insulin prescriptions and that kind of thing. You know, I said to him, Am I really a type two? Because I listened to the Juicebox Podcast. And you're always asking him about this thing? And he said, Oh, yes, you definitely are. Well, I still question some of that.

Scott Benner 35:48
Karen, I have to tell you like as you're speaking, I kept thinking like, we sure she doesn't have type one diabetes. And not because not because we haven't even talked about your diabetes yet. But because right because the the bipolar and the thyroid and like, and the endometriosis and like it all feels like you're telling me is you just feels like you've come on as a type one and you're telling your story. Have they ever done testing?

Karen 36:14
No, not really. Um, I don't know why the cuz I've only seen him once. I don't know why the endocrinologist said that. Exactly. But I will ask him feature.

Scott Benner 36:27
I would I would love for you to get tested.

Karen 36:31
Yeah, I would do. I mean, if I say yeah, I want you to. Now bear in mind, I have been tested, I had so many blood tests. I had 16 tubes filled for four different doctors. Last time I went, got my blood drawn. So that was quite a bit.

Scott Benner 36:54
There was this one time, Arden was sent in for a diagnostic thing. And the the phlebotomist was like, oh, excuse me. And she left the room with this little tray and came back with more. There wasn't enough tubes in the room, Martin within. Arden looked at me and she's like, that that's a first and I said, Yeah. And she's like, Oh, and this lady just, I mean, we were having long form conversations. While this ball was coming out, it just felt like it wasn't going to stop. So. So you've never been tested for antibodies?

Karen 37:30
No, boy, that would not that I know of anyone.

Scott Benner 37:33
That would be I mean, that seems obvious to me. Because, well, go ahead.

Karen 37:38
Do you have any just seen the endocrinologist once though? You know, hasn't been on time to ask a question.

Scott Benner 37:48
Right. Okay. So let's do the rest of this. So, okay. Yeah. So you are eaten Metformin for five years in 2009? Somebody gives you insulin for the first time? Uh huh. How does that go?

Karen 38:03
Um, well, it was the day of a wedding of a friend and I missed the reception because my blood sugar was low. I hadn't expected it. I was taking Lantis and didn't really understand what I was doing, you know, so I thought, well, I better do that before I go to the reception and eat food and so on, but didn't really have a lot of instruction.

Scott Benner 38:29
So they just gave you Lantus and you would shoot it once a day. Yes, and nothing else at the time. No. Okay. Not then. And so without good direction you ended up low. And do you go back

Karen 38:44
super super low now that I know what that is, but at the time low?

Scott Benner 38:48
Why imagine for the first time any low feels scary as hell? Right? You know,

Karen 38:53
so I was afraid to drive 15 minutes to go to the reception, etc.

Scott Benner 38:59
Given me character driven memory, but

Karen 39:04
yes, I did. Okay. But I didn't know about Lowe's. Okay. So and the, the whole reception was full of EMTs I probably would have been okay and nurses

Scott Benner 39:17
out there. But, but tell me about that a little bit. So they give you this Lantis but they don't explain anything to you. You're just it's handed to you like a pill that you shoot with a needle. Is that right? Correct. Just take this now we're gonna do this.

Karen 39:32
Take this much. Do this. Yeah.

Scott Benner 39:35
No training, understanding what it's going to do what might happen or not happen what you're looking for with your meter. Nothing like that's described. Right? Okay. How long do you go on just doing Lantis?

Karen 39:49
Oh, I'm probably a year,

Scott Benner 39:53
a year. And then do they move you to a mealtime insulin as well?

Karen 39:57
Yes. Which I got moved to Novolog for fast acting and Novolog myth 7030 For long term.

Scott Benner 40:08
Okay, so just the Lantis was not doing anything for you. Right? Not doing enough, right? So now you're going to shoot it meals? What's the description from them about how to do that? What is your understanding of what you're about to start doing?

Karen 40:24
Um, well, I just followed directions, you know, the, how much I was supposed to take. And what times and then before meals, I had the sliding scale thing. So, you know, did the finger sticks. And, you know, of course, my problem with that is when you do finger sticks before your meal, you don't necessarily know how much you're taking, you know, as for carbs during the meal, and you don't know if afterward, you've really accomplished that, because they don't tell you to take your blood afterwards.

Scott Benner 41:05
So they would tell you to test at your mealtime and probably use some sort of a ratio they gave you that involve your your current blood sugar. And then you were supposed to say how much? How much how many carbs you were gonna eat? And then shoot?

Karen 41:21
No, nobody said that. How many carbs? I was going to eat just these just shoot

Scott Benner 41:24
this amount, and then don't look again after that. Right. Gotcha. What part of the country you live in? Michigan? Okay. It doesn't matter anymore. I get I give up. I don't trust anybody. It doesn't matter.

Karen 41:42
I will tell you this, that it is true that most type twos don't have a clue.

Scott Benner 41:49
Yeah, we're doing this.

Karen 41:52
You know, it's it's much easier to find things on Juicebox Podcast or on the Facebook group than it is for any type to group. Yeah. I've tried to find out.

Scott Benner 42:08
Current Tell me about that. So you're saying that you joined type two groups. But they weren't helpful? Not really, is it? Because it's full of people who are all lost and don't know what's happening?

Karen 42:21
Currently? Yes.

Scott Benner 42:23
Well, that's a shame.

Karen 42:25
Currently, yes.

Scott Benner 42:26
And I mean, you're not getting any. Listen, nobody told you what the Metformin was going to do what what their goal was, nobody's telling you what the insulins goal is, it's just do this. Thanks. Do you think? Can you step out of this as your as it step out of it for a second? Don't think, okay, as your story for a second, just look back at kind of look back at it? What, why? Why would someone not explain it to you? Do you come off? I'm being really like, serious now. Like, do you come off as somebody who just wouldn't understand? So it's not worth my time?

Karen 43:00
Now, I think I come off as somebody who already knows,

Scott Benner 43:03
okay, and so do you think that they think, Oh, I don't need to explain to Karen she understands it? Like, is your confidence? Maybe stopping them? Or do you think that this is just what happens?

Karen 43:16
I'm both. Okay. Partially both. Because I do know a lot about the physical body. If you're a physical education teacher who's not just moved into a position, you've had to take anatomy and physiology, you've had to take kinesiology, you've had, I have three physiology classes in college, you know, undergrad, that's not even the graduate. So, you know, I do understand a lot. So I think it does seem like that. That's a possibility. And also, in my family, I happened to have physicians, and about eight nurses. You know,

Scott Benner 44:03
I always feel like they're not they know something that they're not telling you. But But you're making me wonder if they don't know. And they're just like, Oh, good. She knows.

Karen 44:12
Yeah. Or she'll find out

Scott Benner 44:15
oh, yeah, but such an odd thing, isn't it? Like, especially with insulin, which can make you so low, dangerously low? If you lose it rock, use it wrong? And the idea is they'll figure it out is, uh huh. I don't know, the whole thing is just free

Karen 44:31
and my agencies were horrible.

Scott Benner 44:35
So it wasn't helpful. What were your agencies? 19 Oh, my God.

Karen 44:40
Well, yes. Then I brought it down each time. 19 then 12.

Scott Benner 44:48
Karen, let me ask you a question. I only ask you real serious question here. I don't know and I haven't been doing the types of stories conversations long enough. I don't have a real like slick way of saying this yet. Was So I'm just gonna say, are you eating your way to a 99? One C? Or is your body like just so incapable of handling it that any food drought drives? You highlight that? Probably both. Okay.

Karen 45:12
So is that what you eat? You know, but at the same time, then I happen to run in after a few years, went into a program nearby. There's a couple, they call themselves chick pea and bean and they have a foundation, that's 501, C three, and did meetings and so on. And they had a thing for diabetics for how to become vegan. And the reason that I did this is because the husband Mark reversed his type two,

Scott Benner 45:53
by being vegan. So you thought maybe that would be helpful.

Karen 45:57
Right? And, you know, I'm not looking for perfection. I mean, I don't exactly think that, I'm going to totally reverse it. But if it does a better job, you know,

Scott Benner 46:09
you could lose then and your agency would go down, and you'd feel better overall, you're not trying to be a Tiktok star or anything like that. You just want to write Yeah, you feel better. Did that not work for you?

Karen 46:21
It works great, but I couldn't keep falling it.

Scott Benner 46:25
Tell me why. So first of all, what endemic? So what does it work? Great mean? You were losing weight?

Karen 46:33
Oh, yeah. How much? I I lost at least 50 pounds. Oh, my God, I had to have another sleep study for my apnea. Because you know, it was over treating at that point. So yeah.

Scott Benner 46:51
You lost 50 pounds, just eating vegetable based, right meals. And then what what about the pandemic stopped you from doing that?

Karen 47:02
Well, my mom lives in a very small town. She's now 91, close to 92. If you're living alone, during the pandemic, that's no fun. So I moved back home with her, partly to you know, have somebody to be with but also to help take care of her a little bit. And my small hometown doesn't have a lot of possibilities, you know, and I was lacking in energy. I think the thyroid was getting me back then. Three, four years ago, and couldn't really do a whole bunch of things that I would like to write. So there you are, you know, Karen,

Scott Benner 47:51
she is it fair to say that you grew up? I don't know. I should be asking. Did you grow up in like an economically depressed situation? Like, did people not know about food? When they were raising you that kind of stuff? No, no. So so they didn't know about food? But you had money? I'm sorry, I shouldn't have mixed those questions.

Karen 48:15
No, that's okay. Um, when I was a kid, we didn't always have money, but we always knew what we're doing. But things have changed since I was good. I was born in 53. You know, used to be a good dinner to have fried chicken. How long it's been since I've had fried chicken, you know, I mean, we use polyunsaturated oils now is supposed to be good. Like, you know, you want to do that, you know, so,

Scott Benner 48:46
so just in general, people's understanding of nutrition was lacking. And so this is really interesting. Hold on a second. I said, cough. Sorry. We've been sick here for months. Now. I don't even know how I'm getting this podcast at this point. But I am not gonna cut that out. I swear to you, I had to start doing situps the other day because I think my wife's on her way out and I might have to date. So he's been sick for so long. It's just It's that good. She got the COVID that translated into bronchitis that seems to have gone into a third thing. She's been sick for like two months almost. And really beaten the hell out of her so but every day I know you've said that before. I mean, nothing like this has ever happened before. So we're it's kind of got the house on a is she 44 Karen, you're hilarious. Yeah, make me cough. I think I spilled something on my chest. So you grew up in this place where it In time, not not a place but a time when like you said fried chicken was good. You were loves that nice, hot, healthy, tasty meal and with throw some potatoes with it and their sin, and everything sort of goes in that direction. So were you heavy as a child?

Karen 50:18
Um, I thought I was, but I wasn't really okay. Um, again, I'm, I have a big frame. And I always seen my friends would be, you know, like little, you know, five, five foot people who were tiny anymore a size six, you

Scott Benner 50:37
know? Yeah, you're saying if you were born in 19, let's go further. If you were born in like, 2000, you would have just been on the girls rugby team in college or something like that would have like, kind of that kind of a built right. Alright, okay. So. But my point is, is that you're out of a generation that just doesn't know what food is supposed to be. And listen, we're all guessing right now that we're right now that we're correct right now, but 330 years from now, my kids might be on whatever our podcast is. 30 years now go and listen. We were eating like this. And we thought it was good. You know? Yeah. So I take the point that we kind of went from the Depression era, where those people, they didn't have anything. And then things got better and the 50s happen and Leave It to Beaver. And now we're all gonna live in houses and smile and everything and, and one person's working in one person's not there's plenty of food moms at home cooking, and making these big meals. And that's the that mom grew up as a child, probably not even eating every day. So that changes the psychology of around food there. And I mean, you already know like food pyramid, which I think is basically been debunked. Yeah. And like you said, like, they were coming up with these. Well, there's that whole thing right where I don't want to dig into it, because I don't know enough about it to talk about it. thoughtfully. But I think the the sugar lobby put out this report to make oils look bad or oils to shoot, I don't know it was one of the other and

Karen 52:18
when and then the, you know, like pork, the other white meat, they hired surgeons to cut the fat out of those meats that they tested.

Scott Benner 52:30
Right like things things like that were going on. There was a marketplace. tomfoolery going on for like sugar was like, Hey, listen, it's fats fault. That was like it sugars fault. And like, you know, and, and then one, one idea takes hold, almost like the like almost like, you know, VHS and Betamax. There's this argument in public and one of them wins. And then we go in this direction. And so we acted like sugar wasn't a problem, even though sugar stored as fat. So, you know, if you ever had gone to like a water ice place, or like an Italian ice place, and there's a sign up that says no fat, like this, like you're eating, it's sugar. And as soon as your body gets it, it's like lost or this as fat. If you didn't intake any fat, but your body turned it into fat. And right. And so now they're coming up with the idea of like, well don't eat red meat, because it'll give you a heart attack or this and we're going to come up with other oils, canola, vegetable, like all these other words, these are going to be healthy oil, which is I've said on here before, if you've ever deep fried something, fill them fill the pan out, deep fry it, and then look and see how much less oil is left in the pan when you're done. That oil is in the food. Right? But if I scooped out a cup of that oil and said Here drink this, you'd go no, no, I would. I would never do that.

Karen 53:57
I've just been watching Life in Alaska in the Arctic Circle, I think it was called. And they're, they're eating fat because they need it to stay warm and to be healthy. Right? Wow.

Scott Benner 54:13
My greater like rambling point is, is that you could just be a mix of wrong place wrong time. crappy, crappy genetics.

Karen 54:26
Now, let's also add in the point that I've done four times, fasting weight loss programs under medical supervision through our hospital and lost weight each time but can't keep it off.

Scott Benner 54:40
How much did you lose doing the fasting?

Karen 54:44
Oh, 75 pounds the first time 100 pounds later, you know?

Scott Benner 54:50
What was the most recent time you did that? How old were you?

Karen 54:53
Um, it was I'm trying to think probably 20 Some years ago, while maybe more like before the hysterectomy, maybe, because I had done that right before and I was doing it during the time that my doctor told me that when I had the hyponatremia from gallbladder surgery, I couldn't keep doing that, because I had gone back down to my lowest weight. I see. You can't, you can't see me diet anymore. You need to get more calories more, you know? Well, you don't tell a fan. Sorry, you can't do it anymore. Do

Scott Benner 55:39
you think you have a psychological attachment to food?

Karen 55:45
I think I have some, but I don't know anybody who does that.

Scott Benner 55:50
Right? Do you just think you over eat more than than the average Overeater. Now I really know it. But that's interesting. I'll tell you something, Karen. I have I don't know if I've ever said along here. But I am the fattest person who doesn't eat that you'll ever meet in your entire life. Like I don't, I'm not a big food person. i There's, there's times in my life where I thought maybe I'm just not eating enough. Like maybe my body thinks we're starving. And it's like holding on to fat.

Karen 56:17
But yeah. Especially when some of these thin people say, Oh, I wish I could gain some weight. If I eat more, I lose. Well,

Scott Benner 56:31
you're way though, like the funny part of that statement? That doesn't make a good point. Like some people's metabolisms just run differently. I think that's pretty obvious. And at the same time, underlying other underlying medical issues could be keeping weight on you like your thyroid or stuff you might not even know about, right? You know, I get through this illness. I think I said this recently, but I had to take a steroid pack to get rid of my bronchitis, they gave me an antibiotic, right? And, and for the 10 days, I'm on the steroid, I'm like, This is amazing. Like, like, the first thing that happens is my like, the, the liquid in my body like regulates, like IP, like crazy for like 20 hours. And if you Google, it'll tell you like steroids raises your blood sugar and some people urinate that that is not what's happening to me. Like, like, my back stops hurting. You know, I, I lose five pounds of water weight, my back stops hurting, I feel terrific. Etc, etc. As soon as the theory is gone, you know, the the water weight comes, I've retained water my entire life, like I'm pregnant. I mean, there's just no other way to put it. Like I my body retains water. And I mean, in a world where we can't get a doctor to explain what Lantis is going to do to you. I don't have a lot of like, serious Yeah, yeah. Like, like people like you should go to a doctor like for what? So they can go try sit up through this, like, you know, nobody knows. Like, great. You have

Karen 58:08
to find the right doctors. I'll tell you I'm I'm very encouraged right now. Because back years ago, I went with a friend that I met online, had COPD, and was trying to quit smoking. So she went to a quit smoking clinic at Mayo Clinic. And I learned a lot about Mayo Clinic then. And my new hematologist is from Mayo Clinic. And he called me firstly, I saw him and then went down and he had bloodwork done. I'm at home and he called me said your blood glucose was 67. And I wanted to make sure you were okay. He called me not a

Scott Benner 58:56
nurse, right. Somebody helped and cared and was concerned and understood what to be concerned about. Well, how did you

Karen 59:04
different from from Mayo Clinic, that's kind of how they work. And it's like, wow, and he's called me again to discuss what my bloodwork is because you look at just my blood work. I don't have von Willebrand disease. It's interesting, but there's another component to the diagnosis, which is experience. Actually, that got the experience

Scott Benner 59:31
and everything else so so tell me something you you get this you get this incident 2009 That's still a long time ago I didn't start the podcast till 2015 So what was your What was your experience between then and when you found the podcast?

Karen 59:49
Ah, bleeding for mean for the fan will advance

Scott Benner 59:53
no need for the diabetes now like for type talk? What was your What was your life like? 2009 until one Whenever you think of it as getting this

Karen 1:00:01
kind of random, you know, I was trying, but I didn't seem to be doing anything effective. I had the high a onesies and you know, didn't know what to do and I kept bringing it down, but at the same time, the lowest I ever got it was nine on my own. Then I started listening to while my doctor said, you should get a CGM. Okay, so he wanted me to get libre to. And I called the talk to the DME who I cannot say enough goodness, about this DME, but they said, Well, I said, I'm worried that if I wear it on my arm or leg or something like that, I'll knock it off. And they say, Well, if you want to wear it on your abdomen, you have to get the Dexcom. So I got the Dexcom. You know, and the G six is wonderful and that I brought my eight onesies down to it first it was 6.6, then six point you now below six. And I've gotten to the kidney specialist and the endocrinologist and they've all said, Keep doing what you're doing. You're like, Okay, I'm doing better. But what am I doing?

Scott Benner 1:01:30
Is is the addition of the CGM just allowing you to see I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty obvious, right? It just allows you to see where your blood sugar is, how you can more effectively move it and what and what food is doing to you.

Karen 1:01:45
Exactly, that's it. And it allows me to adjust a little bit like if I find I'm going high, for example, if I'm sick, or if I've had a vaccination, my blood sugar might be higher. So then I increase a little bit on my fast acting. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
It taught you you can see basically, you can see inside of your body now and it teaches you how to it teaches you how to use insulin, right? I mean, it's funny because I think people might expect some bigger epiphany. But that's it. Really, if you can see, I didn't know you're using a CGM. But if you can see your blood, you can use insulin correctly. And that stops spikes and lows. Have you lost weight on a CGM?

Karen 1:02:36
No, no. I've gained you've gained weight, believe it or not? Well, and I think that goes to the thyroid. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 1:02:44
Yeah, you do have a lot of different components. So your goal right now is to get your thyroid medication dialed in. Right, if that doesn't start to help you, what about going back to the vegan stuff? Karen, how come we don't do that?

Karen 1:03:00
I'm going to do that. I went to an online class, but chickpea and Bing did, and they're very supportive. They live near me. So we haven't been able to do anything that online for the last few years. But I'm hoping that we'll be able to go in person, I'm better in person. If I see people in person, I'm better off to get knowledge or to better, you know, yeah. catch on to things.

Scott Benner 1:03:34
Are you still ahead? I'm sorry. Good.

Karen 1:03:36
I'm sorry. I had to take a class once. Couldn't get it any other way. And I had to do it through by mail. You know, the correspondence courses? Yeah. It was the worst class.

Scott Benner 1:03:49
Are you are you able to exercise at all?

Karen 1:03:53
Yeah, somewhat. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:03:55
So, do you live with your mother still?

Karen 1:03:59
Somewhat? About 50% of the time maybe.

Scott Benner 1:04:03
Okay. And that's the whole power. Yes, yeah. Okay, is there anything it's hard?

Karen 1:04:11
Hard to do my own thing though. She's very resistant to it. And she grew up on a farm with up you know, during the Depression, they always did have enough food because he lived on a farm. And you know, it was a dairy farm so if you're talking beef or dairy boy, my mom's really into that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:04:38
Not so much into tofu or something like that. No, no, that at all. And, and you don't have any trouble. When you're vegan, you're, it's easy. It's easy for you when you're doing it or do you struggle to

Karen 1:04:52
know it's easier? It is much easier. I can eat as much as I want. First of all, Secondly, I'm full from eating more fiber and so on, I think more so than I was when I was in the fasting programs and then adjusting to eating again. And I had dieticians, counseling me, and, you know, all meetings and everything to support but you know,

Scott Benner 1:05:27
in the end, it's, it's calories in, that's what it is, right? It's, it's you have to write even amount of calories for you right now you're trying to lose weight. So you have to be at a deficit so that you lose weight. And then once you get to the weight you need to be you need to be at a don't go back into a surplus so that you can maintain the weight,

Karen 1:05:45
right? But being vegan, you can pretty much eat whatever you want. And you're not going to kind of go over that you don't reach this is the easiest thing I've ever done. Wow. And let me tell you, I, I fought so hard with the fast food programs. One time I went to a store, and I was trying to find something like most women will experience this if they had a period, you know, that you just get where you want to talk about eating kitchen, you just want to eat anything, you know, and you're looking for something that will satisfy you. And it's pretty hard to find it. I did the grocery store. And these are following me. Because I think they thought I was trying to steal things. And I was reading the nutritional labels to find something that was going to satisfy me, but would not be too much of a calorie load. Yeah. No,

Scott Benner 1:06:53
no. Oh, my gosh. So you are managing your diabetes right now just like a type one does. You're on a basil and pretty much are you planning to use the pump?

Karen 1:07:03
No, no, no, I would like to be in a way. Okay, I think

Scott Benner 1:07:09
you're shooting a Basal insulin and covering your meals with fast acting. Correct. Okay. And you learned that on the podcast? Yes. I'm happy for you that this is going well.

Karen 1:07:22
I mean, I still, I still do what my doctors have said, but I've added a little bit from the podcast to help you. And from the the Facebook page.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
Oh, and the Facebook page is helpful for you even though you have type two because you're using

Karen 1:07:37
it right. And because I was on a Dexcom page and Facebook, someone said go to choose backs. It's for type ones. But you'll learn things that will apply. Yeah. So that's how I got to the page and then to the Juicebox Podcast.

Scott Benner 1:07:56
I'm glad. Well, that's excellent. I'm happy that it's helping you. Thank you. Oh, no, please. It's my pleasure. All right. Karen, hold on a second. Yes, there was way more to remember about you than I thought there was gonna be I keep waiting for, by the way, not one of these has gone the way I expected so far. Which is good. Because I thought well, let me do stories about people with type two. You know, see if we can't get more people with type two to step up. I do think there is there is some theme, which is no, no really different than any other illness for some reason, which is Nobody tells me what what's happening. I just you have this take this pill you have this inject this, like that kind of stuff. Nobody really explains and I'm beginning to believe that they don't know. You know, so

Karen 1:08:47
I don't know. But with the bleeding disorders, the Hemophilia Foundation, which I don't know if final brands is really a haemophilia or not, but it's covered by them, ego to support meetings, and they have sessions where they teach you about various things. They have camp for the kids that it's all run by the Hemophilia Foundation in which I don't feel like the diabetic kids are getting seems like there's, there's more individual or something that people are going to different states or you know, I didn't really understand that. So that might be my problem. But to me, that's much more supportive. And I learned much more about being a fleet disordered individual than I have about having diabetes. And there's more people with diabetes, even tied to walk pin.

Scott Benner 1:09:50
Karen, I believe I, I'm starting to believe, like I have like short term goals for the podcast, long term goals for the podcast and you know, The size of the podcast I keep, I think about like, well, the podcast helps people because I make it, it keeps it out in the world, new people find it, they can mine it for information. But if I just stopped making the podcast, it will wither away and die. Like that's how people's minds work. Like you don't I mean, like, people complain that all the new movies suck. But no, but nobody goes back and watches, you know, bullet or something like, you know, they, the old stuff is old. And so to keep helping people, you have to continue to make the thing. And I keep thinking like, how is this going to like long term? Like, how do I get it to a point where it can long term help people? Because this is not, this isn't crazy, right? Like, some doctors don't have a good job of explaining your diabetes to you. We hear those stories from people and don't, and those people's lives are worse for it. And how are we going to get to a point where that's not the case? Like what's the answer? And there are times that I think that in the current model, that answer doesn't really exist. Like there's no like thing, like, there's no magic thing that people aren't doing that if they just did it, everybody who had diabetes would be doing better. I think I think maybe what the podcast is teaching me is that this is it's sort of a virtual meeting. Right? Like they might you can go to on your own schedule, fight. And I I'm almost thinking there are days when I think that's what it is. It's almost like it's almost like AAA, on some level, and, and with management talk mixed into it. And I don't know that there's a better way right now like that, with the technology that exists for reaching people. I don't know if I don't know that there's a better way than this, this idea. So hopefully, someone comes up with it. But I don't think it's not a brochure. It's not a video you watch online one time. It's not a you know, it's not a checklist, like these things have all been tried. They don't help. So, anyway, I found it.

Karen 1:12:15
I do think that the Hemophilia Foundation has found a way to do that. I don't know if it's because it's a smaller population, if it's because they've started getting drug companies involved, which he didn't used to when I first started going to their things. You know, that money is helping, but at the same time, you know, gee, where's the support? How come nobody knows anything? Um, it's also loosey goosey.

Scott Benner 1:12:46
I don't think they know how to deliver it. And I think that this is, I think, I think that I found the most successful way so far, to help people understand diabetes. It's this, and it's not just make a podcast, because trust me, after I made one, a lot of other people tried, and it's no disrespect any of them. I think it's wonderful, but I can see who listens to podcasts. And those other podcasts are not listened to on any great. Like, with any great amount of, I don't know, a big, it's not a big level. And so, so there's something about the information, the format, me, the people who come on, like, you know, all that mixed together is just working, and there's no way to take credit for it, but generally means like, it's like a it's like a TV show that's on for 15 seasons. It's not it's not like they sat down on day one, and they're like, let's make a let's make mash. You know what I mean? Here's what it's gonna be, it's gonna last forever, people are gonna love it, blah, blah, blah, it's gonna, you know, you don't plan something like that. I just got lucky. Like, whatever this is, however, it occurs to me to do it. It just seems to work. And

Karen 1:14:01
yeah, but you're Alan Alda. You have a perception of people, and what they think and feel that is unusual. And I think yeah, it pays off.

Scott Benner 1:14:14
You know, it's funny that somebody said to me, I don't want to say who I talked to when I said this, but I told them I said, I think part of my job is kind of counterintuitive to how people think like people go out into these spaces, they like well, the people will tell you what they need. And you know, we'll just we'll we'll give them what they want. And to some degree, I give you what I think you need. I don't stop to think about I mean, I'm not I'm not I'm not unfeeling about people's feelings or anything like that. Like I'm not harsh, but we don't like if we didn't you and I, for example, didn't spend 20 minutes talking around the fact that you weigh what you weigh. You don't like we didn't nice it up and we didn't You've called yourself fat and we just started talking, that's an honest conversation. And is it gonna hurt someone's feelings? Like, I hope not, but maybe it will. But what I can tell you for sure is that if you went on, you know, a podcast run by like some big diabetes organization and started calling yourself fat, they'd never put that online that nobody would this would get cut up or you know, diced up. This is a real conversation, you're 69 year old lady who's got a ton of health issues. And I don't have type two diabetes, although I really want you to go get an antibody test. And, and, and this is this is your life, like you just laid it out for us? Nobody does. everybody's worried about it's going to hurt someone's feelings or it's going to be perceived incorrectly. I don't care about that. Like, I want to figure out why people with type two diabetes. Don't get help. Yeah. Why don't they? And my big question around it is why don't they understand what they have? How come every person I talked to with type two? Doesn't know what what's happening to them.

Karen 1:16:05
That's what I want. Why I wanted to talk to you. I mean, when you invited me it was just not a good time at that point. And then I had to have knee surgery and then my reading became up.

Scott Benner 1:16:19
Can we put effort into getting you on this podcast? We really did and I'm glad that we did. I'm glad we did it. Seriously.

Karen 1:16:26
Thank you so much. And I really appreciate you being flexible because once I bollocks stuff don't trying to put it on my calendar.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
Don't even think twice about this is well worth it. By the way. I have to go because I have to record with Jenny and a little bit. Okay, but John Philip Sousa wrote Stars and Stripes Forever. Yes. He's, uh, he was uh, he wrote a lot of like, what I guess we'd call like patriotic music back then. Which is Stars and Stripes. Hold on one second. All right. Is the stars destroyed forever public domain. Old enough to be in the public domain. So all you need to perform a song isn't okay. It is. Oh, that means I can play a little bit of it at the end. All right. I'm gonna go I appreciate you doing this. So much. Hold on for one second for me. I want to talk to you just before you go. Okay. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you

first, a huge thanks to Karen for coming on the show and sharing so honestly, and of course dexcom.com forward slash juice box head over and get yourself the Dexcom G six or Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems. Don't forget the contour next gen is that contour next one.com forward slash juice box. super accurate, easy to use. And lovely to hold in your hand. Contour next one.com forward slash juice box dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Fill out the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. Want to save 35% on your entire order@cozier.com you can with the offer code juice box 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com forward slash juice box. And of course, get a free I didn't even mention this the beginning. Get a free five travel packs a free year of vitamin D with your first order of athletic greens from athletic greens.com forward slash juice box. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast but just let me say this before I go. If you have type two diabetes, and you're looking for a place to talk to other people with diabetes, check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but don't let that name throw you. It's for everybody who has diabetes Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes is a private Facebook group with over 40,000 members. Actually here at the end, I'd like to throw in a plug for the type two Pro Tip series that I did with Jenny Smith. You can find it in the featured tab. On the private Facebook group. There's a list of them. You can also find them at juicebox podcast.com or search your podcast player for juicebox type two pro tip

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#799 Type Two Stories: Michael

Michael has type 2 diabetes and uses insulin.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 799 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast, we'll be speaking with Michael Michaels in his early 60s. He's a teacher, a musician, and he has type two diabetes. That's right, today is another in the type two Story series, as I try to have as many conversations as I can with people living with type two diabetes, so that we can understand it more fully. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one and are a US resident, I'm asking if you'll please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box join the registry complete the survey whole thing should take you fewer than 10 minutes, you're going to be helping people with type one diabetes moving type one diabetes research forward. And you might even be helping yourself T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Get yourself accurate results. With this easy to carry, easy to use, and beautifully made blood glucose meter contour next one.com forward slash juice box check out the Contour. Next One. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links that juicebox podcast.com to G voc Contour. Next One and all of the sponsors. When you click on the links, you're supporting the podcast. Hi, everybody.

Michael 2:14
This is Michael. I'm a type two diabetic since 2006. And I live in Oklahoma.

Scott Benner 2:22

2006. That's a good long time. That's excellent. Not excellent for you. It's excellent for the conversation. Why do you have such a nice microphone, Michael?

Michael 2:33
Oh, well, I'm a musician. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, and a music teacher. And during the pandemic, I did quite a bit of teaching from home. So I put together a really good gear. I actually had a better camera than this. But I know we didn't need a camera. So I didn't set all that up there. I had to have good sound to effectively teach. How's my level?

Scott Benner 2:56
Your listen besides Jenny, you're gonna sound the best anybody's ever sounded on this podcast. That's terrific.

Michael 3:03
I understand. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:03
I just sent me a new microphone. Oh, good. I did you can really she had a good one. Well, yeah. And then I got her a better one. And then one day, I was like, What am I doing? I just sent her a really good mic. And she sounds terrific now. So

Michael 3:17
people always asked me if I'm a podcaster. Because when I do zoom meetings, I've got all this good gear. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:25
I actually have a second computer that you can't see. So when I do business stuff, I'm not sitting in front of this microphone talking to people, because that's a good idea. It became obvious to me that people are just the whole time like, what is he wearing headphones, you know? Anyway. So you know, I guess I'd like to really, you know, I'm doing my best. And it's funny, you corresponded with me the other day, and you were almost like, do you really still want to do this, because you haven't had many type twos on, but it is not for lack of trying. Gotcha. And as a matter of fact, I had an interesting conversation, I don't think I should say with the company, which company it was, but I had an interesting conversation the other day with my liaison at one of the companies. And I said, You guys are going to get more to type two in the next couple of years. Right? They said, Yeah, we want to and I said, Well, I want to as well. I'm trying to have more type twos on the podcast. It's very difficult to get them to, to talk about it. And I think and I feel like I understand why but it wasn't an impediment for you. So my first question is, did you have any, any thoughts of like, oh, I don't want to do this or do you not mind people knowing

Michael 4:36
I had none of those thoughts. I actually like talking to people about it, particularly people in the same kind of situation that I was in. So no, I have no reservations whatsoever. I appreciate that. And I think listening to the podcast is one of the reasons why you have so many people on and they're you know they're they're also forthcoming for the most part I'm, and I thought, well, I've got a story. And I've got things that I can share that are not only similar but different. I think there'll be some unique things about my story that you may not have heard before.

Scott Benner 5:12
Okay, well, I'm thrilled about this, I really am, I want so much for people with type two to be able to understand their situation better. I feel like I speak to a lot of people with type two who just this thing is happening to them. And they're on a ride and wherever it leads them is where it's going to lead them. And I don't think that needs to be the case for them. So I guess tell me how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Michael 5:36
Let's see. 2006. Terrible. Listen, how old are you now? I'm 6363. Yeah, so you do the math from

Scott Benner 5:48
let's say 2006 to 16 is 10. And then four more gets you to 20. And then two more gets you to 22. So that's 16 that we take six minus three. That's 41567. And then that's now a five. You were 47.

Michael 6:06
Okay, well, yeah, I was I was pre diabetic for many years, my mother was diabetic her entire adult life, my sister is very severely diabetic. So I knew it was coming. And I still didn't do anything about it. I

Scott Benner 6:19
knew it was coming. Like you saw symptoms and and similarities. Were just you thought this has to happen to me, it's happening to everybody else

Michael 6:26
a little both by you know, I had doctors telling me, you know, I've always been overweight, and the doctors knew my history. And it's like, you know, you're pre diabetic, and you need to change your ways, or it's going to happen to you.

Scott Benner 6:42
Was there anything about their warning that led you to change preemptively or No,

Michael 6:49
not a thing. I, you know, I have had a very busy life and career and I just basically ignored it for a long time until I couldn't ignore it anymore. What happened

Scott Benner 7:02
that made it impossible to ignore?

Michael 7:07
Well, I did doctor a lot, you know, I have a couple of other things that are, you know, major health issues, you know, and they check your blood sugar, and they just kept saying, you know, you're there. And I didn't really feel symptoms, like excessive thirst and, you know, excessive urination for a few years after that. They immediately put me on Metformin, and Glyburide. And a couple other things, you know, so I took pills for a long time. And Metformin, for me has been toxic, which is part of my story. You know, I just pretty much took the pills and ate what I wanted to hardly ever exercised, I worked a ton raised a family all that is just basically something that I had to take pills for. And, you know, we all know now I was so uneducated, it was ridiculous. We all know now that you know, it's not and that's gonna catch up to you. And it did. It clearly did catch up to me.

Scott Benner 8:15
I have a question. Two questions, actually, when they're telling you, you're there. Do they give you context to that and a one C or Yeah, okay. Do you know what it was?

Michael 8:24
I don't remember. I know, I can't remember. I do know the highest my once he has gotten through all this was 8.9. Which, you know, isn't ridiculous. My my sister sometimes is, you know, in the teens. Really? Yeah. Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 8:45
uptight, too. Yes, she, oh, gosh, these I'm not as practiced as these conversations. But do you have to eat yourself to an agency like that? Or is it a severity level inside your body and doesn't matter what happens just some people have higher frequencies?

Michael 9:01
I think, you know, it's a little both with her. She she's, you know, really taking care of herself now, but still struggling. Sometimes her agency is great. Other times, it's really high. She sometimes has blood sugar levels in the five hundreds, you know, and she has infections in her feet that have gotten really bad. So, you know, she's been hospitalized several times for these infections and almost lost one of her feet. And she's not you know, she's so scared to death of it. Now. She's, it's not a matter of her food intake. Okay, something else going on with her and her her diabetes is much more severe than mine is her body's

Scott Benner 9:41
just Yeah. And I want to be clear about when I said food intake, I didn't mean like, it's weird. I didn't mean just like massive over eating. I just meant I meant carbs that your body can't cover like you put in more carbs than your system can handle. Yeah. And but that's something else. Okay, so so back to you. You're there, but you still wait a little bit, but then once they, I'm gonna guess they push the pills on you right? At some point. Oh, yeah, they try to scare you in a doctor's office or do you get one of those conversations? No, no,

Michael 10:14
I have great doctors. They're not scaring me. They're just saying, you know, we need to treat this and this is how we treat it, bam. And I'm doing it. And then, you know, I graduated to injectables. And I did that for a long, long time, until actually a year ago, when I went MDI,

Scott Benner 10:36
okay, so you started with metformin? Yeah, but did it leave you with a feeling of like, Oh, I'm taking the pill now. So I don't have to change anything. Exactly. Okay.

Michael 10:47
Being go. You know, it was just a kind of a thing I did every day, and I ignored it. I hardly ever checked my levels. And I did that for, you know, 10, well, longer than 10 years,

Scott Benner 11:02
10 years, 10 years, you're taking the Metformin, eating what you want? Yes, not really checking your blood sugar, when you say not really checking your blood sugar daily, weekly? How do you do it? Oh,

Michael 11:15
just every once in a while it was you know, sometimes I'd go months without checking it. You know, my brain was like, you're taking the pills. It's okay. They check your agency in the doctor's office. And, you know, we get up to seven, something. I wrote, I wrote it seven to seven, three for a years and years and years. So then it started creeping up a little bit, and I got an endocrinologist. And he got me down to like 6.5. With other medications. That's when I went on trulicity and some other things before we still on Metformin. Before

Scott Benner 11:57
we talked about that. Let me ask one last kind of backward looking question. I'm sure with 16 years of hindsight, taking the pills, I'm okay, I'm taking the pills. Did you believe that? Or did you talk yourself into believing it? Or is that what you? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, or was it just a convenient way to ignore what was happening?

Michael 12:16
Yeah, that it was more that. You know, I was, like I said, working a lot. And I had a high of other health issues that were bothering me too. And it was kind of hit just head in the sand. Yeah. You know about my health in general. That wasn't a priority, or you put it that way. Are you comfortable

Scott Benner 12:35
sharing your other health issues? Or are they not sure? No.

Michael 12:39
I have psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, which is an autumn immune thing, and I take some pretty heavy medication for that. You know, and some other things, but those are the biggies. Those are the two biggies in my life. Okay.

Scott Benner 12:53
So the idea there is it's cascading right, you pick the what seems like the worst thing at the moment. And you focus on that. You go to doctor's appointments, use up your thought process your cycles on that, and then there's nothing left for the rest of it afterwards. Is that about right?

Michael 13:11
Yes, I think that's a really great way to characterize it.

Scott Benner 13:15
Yeah. I've noticed that in even my own life with myself or hand helping my kids, there's just not enough hours in the day, there's not enough energy, there's not enough time, you still have to work and you start, it's, I don't know, it's like the house is burning down. Just put the water where the biggest fire is, is how it feels sometimes,

Michael 13:36
you know, it's procrastination and taking the easiest path for the moment because you've got everything hitting you, you know, and that that's pretty much the way I live my life.

Scott Benner 13:45
Part of onslaughts if part of what I noticed with Arden, is that even after you, you stop everything, and you think, Okay, I'm going to focus on this problem. And you find what looks like a direction, and you decide, I'm going to handle this. And then you go to the doctor and you leave the doctor, and it doesn't feel like anything happened. And you go it was whole thing was just the waste of time. We're not we're not getting anywhere. You know, the truth is, though, it's persistence. Like you just had to keep hammering away, and you have to have the mind to collate everything or to make lists and draw lines and make yourself see see the connections, you know, because I do think as great as some doctors are, it is still on you a little bit to connect the dots. A lot, maybe.

Michael 14:40
No doubt. Yeah, no doubt about that. Yes. You know, and if you put it off, it's going to be harder and harder. It's just like, any habit that you need to form. If you don't face it, I tell my students face your weaknesses with sword in hand. You know, it's kind of a dramatic statement for saying don't Don't put off, you know, fixing these issues that you have. And I did that for, you know, 16 years, right. Finally, finally, a year ago from now, I got another endocrinologist, the old one left the country. So I kind of just was going with my GP, who was keeping my medications up, and, you know, trying a few things here and there. But finally, I, I, I was having a lot of problems with my professional life related to the side effects. And that's what, you know, that's what gave me the wherewithal to really go after it,

Scott Benner 15:42
meaning, the side effects like gastric issues and trying to do your job at the same time or one,

Michael 15:48
that's one of them. You know, I was thirsty constantly. I had to pee all the time, it was really an inconvenience. But the thing that really put me over the top is, I'm a trumpet player, professional trumpet player. That's how I make my living. I teach trumpet at the university level, and I play in orchestras and all sorts of things. And suddenly, you know, here I am 60 years old, and my endurance on the instrument, which is a factor, you know, you have to have great endurance to be a working trumpet player. It just, it just went in the crapper. I couldn't, I would play great for 10 or 15 minutes, and then crash, everything would crash. And this went on for a long time. And I was thinking I'm gonna have to quit, you know, which of course I can't do yet. And I started researching why this would be a talk to a lot of people. And I started checking on the side effects of metformin. And I didn't really find anything at first. And then I discovered a, an academic paper on Metformin, and lactic acid buildup. Oh, and I discovered that Metformin causes you to hold on to lactic acid longer in some people longer than normal. And you know, the muscles here are the muscle in my face, you know, next to my lips, would be the muscles that would break down. And I thought, Gosh, I wonder if that's a Metformin doing this because nothing else made sense. So I went to my endocrinologist and I said, first thing, I have to get off Metformin, I told her why she was all for it. Up to this point, I should say that I had a misconception about insulin. In my mind, somehow, I don't know how going on insulin, to me was just the beginning of the end, I thought that I should be delaying going on insulin as long as possible. I just didn't know. I don't know where I got that thought. But I thought that insulin was like the last resort, which of course, is, you know, a terrible way to think. So, you know, I was doing all these other drugs in Bacana. You know, Metformin, and trulicity. So, I just, I found a Facebook group, it was a, you know, maybe the Dexcom group or the Omni pod group, and then I found your group. And she got me off Metformin, and on on MDI, and she did it right away. And within three or four days, my endurance started to come back. I mean, it didn't take long at all, it suddenly, these issues that I have not been able to get through a concert or even a practice session. were gone. It wasn't it wasn't gradual at all. It's just almost instant. So she got me on MDI, and I read, think like a pancreas. And I started listening to your podcast, I listened to all the, the basic ones, and, you know, not to be too sappy about this, but I think that saved my life. That saved my career without question that saved my career. Because it taught me that using insulin in the right way was a very healthy way to deal with your diabetes. I also changed my diet of course, you know, I didn't just, you know, go on insulin say it's good. Well,

Scott Benner 19:34
were you able to start exercising?

Michael 19:37
I still haven't really done that. Okay. You know, I still have all those jobs. My kids are grown and out of that house, but yeah, the swerea Attic arthritis is a is a factor there. I have also really big time back issues. So I can't really walk very far I don't have the ability to swim anywhere or do Anything like that regularly? So, you know, I have terrible discipline when it comes to exercising. So unfortunately, I have not been able to throw that into the pod maybe, I don't know, maybe you want to retire, but I won't make any promises there.

Scott Benner 20:12
You know, I find myself right now recovering from COVID, which turned into bronchitis. And so I'm currently on a, on a steroid pack. Yes, it's I find myself twice this year on a steroid pack. The first time was in the summer when I got hit by something and had like this very bizarre allergic reaction. Anyway, the point is, is I've now used the steroid pack twice in like a six or eight month, eight month span. And as soon as I start taking it, I start losing weight. My back stops hurting. My digestion gets easier. And I was standing in the shower today getting ready to talk to you and I thought, I'm going to call a rheumatologist. And I'm going to set an appointment and just tell them that story and see what happens. Because I'm, there's it's clear that some sort of inflammation is slowing me down. Yes, I mean, on a normal day, I couldn't sit here and twist in this chair like this. My back would be stiff and it would hurt. And I mean, painful. And if I overstretched it, it would hurt for days after that. Yeah, and steroid pills three days and mom, okay.

Michael 21:22
Prednisone is a magical drug. I thought it was working like that, though. They thought it was going to cure everything. And then they discovered the long term side effects. I had COVID for eight weeks, I had long COVID. I'm just now getting my taste back. The first time I had it, it was like a cold for two days. But the second one really killed me. And I had terrible fatigue every day, for two months. Fortunately, I'm on sabbatical. So I was able to handle it schedule wise. But I had some dose packs in there, too. There are terrible lung issues. You know,

Scott Benner 22:03
I had six, seven days in the middle where my fevers just went, I was just hot and cold, hot and cold, constantly couldn't sleep. But I was incredibly tired. I'd sat I'd sit up to five in the morning, just like a wake like I was like I was on something, you know, that I'd fall asleep at six wake up at nine, there are five or six episodes of this podcast, where I don't know how I did them. And I'm never gonna tell you which ones are which. But I would get done sometimes and be like, Well, that was it for me today. Like focusing and having a conversation for an hour, then I was done.

Michael 22:34
And you didn't have any choice is like, Okay, I have to lie down now no matter what's on your schedule. Yeah, it happened to me.

Scott Benner 22:41
Right? How were your blood sugar's during the illness?

Michael 22:45
Well, they're kind of up and down because of the steroids. You know, I was trying to compensate for them, but didn't have a lot of experience with that plus them getting steroid injections into my back at the same time. And so I think I handled it okay. But, you know, my agency went up a little bit during that time, you know, two points. Well, two tenths of a point, I should say. So I think I weathered it pretty well, actually.

Scott Benner 23:13
Great. So you said you went from Metformin to injectables? And I want to clarify that for people who might not understand because they might have thought you went right to insulin, but you didn't you went to some of those medications. You said trulicity. Were there other things in there?

Michael 23:27
Oh, I was on trulicity and other pills for a long time, until a year ago is when I went MDI, okay, but trulicity or something like it, you know, I tried ozempic for a little while. And I was doing Invokana, Metformin. Glyburide. Want maybe one other in there. And, you know, in November of last year, is when I went to her and said, I want to get off that so that I can save my career.

Scott Benner 24:04
Yeah. Did any of those medications impact your weight?

Michael 24:09
Yes, actually. Trulicity helped me keep my weight down. For me, that's still really high. But I was very consistent while I was on trulicity. And since I dropped her licitly and went on insulin, I've gained 30 pounds. Okay, which is the issue I need to address now. I didn't know at the time that insulin can cause you to gain weight and that it's very common to gain weight on insulin. Everything else got so much better. I was just giddy. You know, my plan came back to normal and

Scott Benner 24:43
felt like you could eat again the way you wanted to and all that.

Michael 24:47
I actually changed and, you know, went low carb. And that was a discovery period. You know, I discovered that I have to eat some carbs. I can't go no carb

Scott Benner 25:00
making crazy after a while. Oh, gosh.

Michael 25:03
It's amazing what that does to you.

Scott Benner 25:05
So long time ago before people talked about it like this. I read a book. And the doctor was like, you know, if you go low carb it was this the diet kind of like a diet fad. I forget what it was. And my wife and I did it when we were really young. We were like, in our 20s. And I lost like, a bunch of weight. She did too. And, but there was this day, we sat down at dinner, and I was like, I can't eat another fun chicken wink. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm really I can't, I can't, like I just can't like and the grease that would go not even like not like we were cooking pounds up hamburger and drinking or anything but like, just something with like grease in it. Like every day. You're like, I can't I just can't do this anymore. But I can't believe I can't think of what that diet fad was called back then. Yeah, Atkins. Atkins. That's exactly right. Yeah. But yeah, I know, I know what you mean, like, every once in a while, you're just like, Can I have a piece of bread please? Like, I just want to, I want the texture my mouth to change, you know?

Michael 26:06
Well, that's that's one point. But for me, it was, you know, I would eat to get through to my island. Next meal without shakes or weakness. Oh, and if I didn't have any carbs at all, I couldn't do that. I would be really out of sorts, mentally and physically. So I finally discovered I had to have a little bit for each meal. Do you

Scott Benner 26:30
think some of those injectables, were lowering your blood sugar too far without the carbs?

Michael 26:35
No, I wasn't having lows. Okay. Just, it feels the same. But for some reason, I need that in my diet. It's interesting, okay, I, you know, kind of cut way back on them. You know, I used to, you know, not concern myself with any carbs at all. And so I became more aware of how damaging that is. But I, I really, am careful to not overdo it.

Scott Benner 27:03
Okay, I do want to highlight one thing you said and talk about it for a second, he said, I didn't realize that the insulin caused me to gain weight, I always think it's important to tell people that insulin doesn't make you gain weight. Insulin helps you store the calories you eat. And it's just important for them to have that context. So if you're taking in a surplus of calories, your body's gonna store it as fat. And the Insulin helps the storage process, you may not be gaining weight, while your blood sugars are super high. But you're just you're killing yourself in a different way. And your body's not able to store some of those calories the same way. So you can like you know, when you hear people's diagnosis stories with type one, and a lot of them will say I was eating everything I wanted and losing weight. And I thought I finally did it. You know what I mean? I finally figured out the code. It doesn't work that way. But then people get it into their heads. Well, I can't take insulin, because insulin will make me gain weight. And so I'm here to tell you insulin doesn't make you gain weight. Insulin stores the food that you take in those calories. That is where that comes from.

Michael 28:07
Well, I knew that and, you know, my agency has gone up a little bit and my weight has gone up a lot. And, you know, I think I don't have as much I figured out how to eat less carbs. Right. But I'm a lot hungrier and I think not being on trulicity as part of that I might go back on it. I saw my endocrinologist yesterday. And she wants me to put put me on a new drug that name I'm blanking on right now. It's brand new, it's only been out a couple of months. It's used for diabetics, and also, you know, weight control.

Scott Benner 28:46
You know, there's a lot of consternation right now in the media, because when I forget one of the drugs, it's a type two drug injectable that also helps with weight, I must say got popular amongst influencers online. Yeah, now there's a shortage of it. And there's a section of people are very upset, like, you know, they're using diabetes, drugs and everything. But what people might not know, is companies are marketing those drugs that way. And then they develop them while they were developed them, developing them for type two. And along the way, they realized this is an effective weight loss thing to they're not trying to hide that it isn't people. It's not like people going like, ooh, could I figure it out? I mean, it's all in the company. They they marked it for two different things. If they're running out of it, they need to make more of it not right. You know what I mean? Like you can't blame the guy on tick tock, you figured out he could lose 100 pounds on trulicity euros and pack or something like that. So and we'll

Michael 29:44
Trulicity is made by Lilly, and they that's exactly what happened with them. So this new drug is also made by Lilly, and it's supposed to be improved trulicity Okay, so basically they, they refined it. And it's supposed to be much more effective in both areas weight loss and in blood sugar control. And it's only been out like two months. So I think maybe this new drug is in part a response to what you just said. Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:21
Well, I hope it will. I hope you get it. And I hope it works for you. Yeah, I hope to Yeah. I mean, it's, listen, like, well, we can sit here, you know, there's a whole different way to have this conversation, right? You could be on a different podcast, they might be like, you know, get out there and work out. I don't care if your back hurts, blah, blah. And listen, they might be right. I always think those people don't take into account. You know, when you you know, when you hear somebody say, it's a famous personal say, like, just work out. It's not that hard. And I think, yeah, sure. You have $1.9 million in your bank account. You get up in the morning, and you go, here's what I'm gonna do today, I'm gonna have a breakfast, I'll sit with the kids for a bit. I'll go for a walk with the dog. I'll work out. I'll go make my podcast for two hours. And then like, yeah, if we all had lives like that, then I can see turning to everybody go on, you're lazy, go work out like you've got all this free time, your life and my life, to be honest, but yours more specifically? I don't imagine you find yourself standing around a lack of oh, I don't know what to do next. Yeah, right. So you can tell people, and I don't think it's wrong, get exercise, move around. You have to It's incredibly important. But I don't think that means that for the people who can accomplish that for either reasons of, you know, deteriorating health, time, money, whatever it is, that doesn't make those people right off. If injecting something in their ass once in a while, he's gonna make him lose 50 pounds, like, you know, like, alright, it's not the perfect way to do it. And it might not be the way that some people want. But everybody deserves to have the best, healthiest, easiest life possible. And I say do what works. You know,

Michael 32:02
fortunately, that's what my Endo, that's her approach. Right? Now. She's she's not lecturing me about less calorie intake. Although she did want me to do bariatric surgery, that's a whole nother issue. She was really pushing that on me. And, you know, I really looked into it. And it just decided it wasn't going to be for me. I mean, I was pretty positive. I couldn't even do what's required to qualify for the surgery. You know, there's a whole laundry list of things that you've got to prove to them that you can do in terms of diet and exercise, right? that I thought would be unrealistic for me plus, I, you know, you just hear all the horror stories. My daughter is has a master's degree in nutrition. And she was adamant that I not do it. So other than that, and you know, she accepted my decision, she did not press, and she doesn't press on. The other thing is either she just helps me deal with things. I mean, after a month of listening to your podcast and reading, think like a pancreas. I went to her and said, I want to be on in CGM, an insulin pump and she did it immediately. That's great. I mean, I got on Omni pod five weeks after I started in MDI. So you know, it takes an endocrinologist support to make that happen. Sure

Scott Benner 33:25
to us. Yeah, especially right now. CGM. For example, if you're type two, you could really benefit from a CGM. I don't think it's available to you through insurance unless you're using insulin. I think that's how it's written right now.

Michael 33:44
And I got the CGM first,

Scott Benner 33:46
did you really? That's great. Yeah,

Michael 33:48
I got the CGM when I went on an MDI when I started in,

Scott Benner 33:52
but you're on insulin? Yes, yeah.

Michael 33:55
Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:57
To get a CGI at the way it's written. Now, I know that. Yeah, I don't think it should be that way. I believe that. I think if someone would have put a CGM on you, 10 years ago, yes, it would have made you think, oh, hell, this is not going nearly as well as I thought it was, I did have to do something else.

Michael 34:16
Without a doubt, having that information in your face on a daily or hourly basis would have changed things much earlier for me. And if I just simply had the information that insulin works better, and is not the beginning of the end, if I just known that. I think I probably you know, could have gotten to this point five or six years earlier.

Scott Benner 34:41
Yeah. It's such a shame when you were talking about earlier because by thinking that, Oh, insulin, that's the last step before I die, because that's what you were thinking, right? Yes. So, you know, so you're trying to stave this off? Yes. Meanwhile, had you started it the last decade of your life might have been In a better I guess is the word you know

Michael 35:04
yeah I think probably overall I would have been much healthier and much more aware I I just pretty much you know put it on the bottom shelf and didn't really think about it and took the pills religiously you know I did doctor you know, I got my a one C checked every three months and it stayed fairly in the range until it didn't.

Scott Benner 35:33
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If you could put yourself in front of a bunch of people who are in your situation. Why do you think a couple of questions? You're here doing this so you don't have whatever issue it is that I kind of brought up at the beginning. But when you look online, there's this vibrant community around type one diabetes. Yeah. And you would think you would think the numbers were mixed. You would think that there were hundreds of millions of people with type one diabetes, and a million and a half people with type two diabetes based on the on the way their voices are amplified. But instead it's completely flip flopped, right? There's so many people who have type two, it's not a big community people I've seen companies and organizations try to start type two stuff. It they never take off, communities don't take off. I have type two people on and then get a couple of notes inevitably stop having type twos on. And I'm like, this is a podcast for type ones that I'm like, this is a podcast, people have diabetes. And it's not a contest. Yeah. And if you you know, people are gonna hear your story. And previous I have been able to get some people with type two to come on all of their stories. I have to be honest with you, I don't know them up front when you come on. And but now you're the third person that told me I have type two diabetes, I found your type one diabetes podcast. And I'm better off now. I did not expect that. I'm happy about it. But now how do you like how do I get this information into the world so that other people in your situation list that and go okay, so insulins not death or I'm not failing if I do this? Or if I can't lose 100 pounds magically on my own first. Do you have thoughts about how to get through to people on that?

Michael 39:33
Well, first of all, I would say that most of us that are on some kind of pills or even injectables, its head in the sand. We're not dealing with it like type one people are when it's life and death. You know, I feel like a second class citizen in these forums. And when I listen to the podcast because type one is so much more serious. I feel so the pain I feel For these parents who are up all night and scared to death, their child is going to die in the night. And having to deal with that seems just so much more significant than what I've had to deal with. And I think a lot of type twos, you know, they're just, it's, they say it's a slow death, but you know, there, it's not in their face. So it's really easy to put it on, like I say, on the bottom shelf, or put your head in the sand. And, you know, I wouldn't have read that book, there's no way I would not have found your podcast, I had to go after it, I finally had enough and just decided I needed to figure this out. And I, you know, like everything else, I did some research. And that, that's what led me to it. But I don't think a lot of type twos, you know, who are not feeling great symptoms, and they're, you know, I was that way for over 10 years. I just don't think it's on their plate, or right in front of them on a regular basis. It

Scott Benner 41:04
really is, I guess it really is what I've been thinking forever, which is just that if it's not going to kill you today, then it doesn't put it at the top of your list. And then it It eats at you so slowly. And then there's this moment where you fall off a cliff. And it's too late by that. And so so when it's when you have time to handle when there's when it's the time to take care of it, you don't feel the push to take care of it. By the time you feel the push. It's probably over.

Michael 41:32
I don't think it's ever too late. No, no, tell me. Well, I'm a good example of that, you know, my symptoms went away, just, you know, by controlling my sugars that I had totally ignored before. And, you know, I think I'm gonna live a long life. There's no indication otherwise, heart is strong. So I don't think I mean, sure, you can keep your head in the sand until you're on death's door. But at some point, even for me, he's 1516 years after diagnosis at some point, if you can get to the point where hey, I really need to address this, I can't ignore it anymore. Right? Then I think you can not recover, right? You don't recover from it. But

Scott Benner 42:28
the back manage it and your and your body can recover. It just might not be back to when you were 25 but I appreciate you putting more context to that because that is what I meant. I didn't mean like you know, if you wait five years, it's too late. Just jump out a window. I you know, I meant like what happens when your body tips over to the point where there's no return? But yeah, there. If you're listening to this, today's the day you don't I mean that you weren't great wasn't Yeah, your agency needs to be lower and it needs to be stable. You need to be able to eat food without seeing large spikes that lasts forever. I if it's a CGM that helps you, you know, being fastidious with a meter using insulin. You know, I don't know some of these injectables are once weekly. I don't know how much they help people or don't I've never talked to anybody that's, you know, I mean, do they keep your agency to seven but you don't check all week. So you don't know if your blood sugar's 250 or 300. It's like I don't know how it works. You know, that's how it works. Yes. Eisley so so you, so it's giving you it's giving you lower overall numbers, but it's not. Yes. He's not killing a lot of variability. Nope. Okay.

Michael 43:40
Let's still have the spikes. It just takes you back. Yes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:45
What was it? What was it like to go from those injectables to insulin? What was your learning curve on? on figuring out how to cover your meals and you're taking basil? I imagine too. Yeah.

Michael 43:57
Yeah. Well, I'm a gadget guy, man. I love gadgets. I love figuring out technology. And so I went all in. You know, I put a ton of effort into learning about how these devices work, and, frankly, your podcast defining diabetes that that series and it was eye opening for me and it, it just made me want to get it to work like you make Arden's work. Right, I was I was inspired to do that. And so that, you know, I wanted the tech and I wanted it fast. And fortunately, my endocrinologist knew how to get that out of my insurance company. You know, because I didn't like MDI. But I saw the results through MDI, and then, you know, I'm hearing about Omni pod and I'm like, that it's going to work with my lifestyle better than anything else that I've seen, and I can't wait until I can get Omnipod od 500. That's

Scott Benner 45:01
so interesting because that stuff should work with that should work so well for a typo. It really should. Right? Yeah, that's, that's an exciting idea. Are you eligible for that?

Michael 45:14
No, no, it's, it's not indicated for type two. But my endocrinologist told me yesterday, I saw her yesterday that she has one patient whose insurance is paying for it now. So I think there's, I think there's hope for that, pretty soon. For I'm gonna go after, you know, and there's a lot of travails with learning how to use this. You know, even with the podcast, which is just remarkably helpful. And the forums, you know, I'm in a couple of Omni pod forums, you can ask questions there and get great answers. It still took me a long time to figure out how to make it work in my lifestyle. A lot of trial and error.

Scott Benner 45:59
What were the first stumbling blocks,

Michael 46:03
controlling spikes, I still have problems Pre-Bolus thing I forget. It's just, you know, so commonplace now. I think, for me to really control spikes better, I need to Pre-Bolus 45 minutes in an hour in advance. And you know, my meal is the last thing on my mind at those times. So often, I'll be cooking the meal. It's like, gosh, I need to Pre-Bolus and I hadn't done it. So then I have to stop what I'm doing. And find my PDM and calculate what I'm going to eat. I don't really do that anymore. I kind of ballpark it. Right? Which is probably why am I a one C went up to two tenths point.

Scott Benner 46:47
Is that because you're using too much insulin or too little?

Michael 46:51
Yeah, well, well, I'm just not nailing it. Like I used to. Variability ago. Yes. And I've had some lows that were scary for me. Yeah, and I never had lows the day in my life. So that was a new experience for me. So you know, it just, it seems to be a moving target. But you know, I just am not giving quite as much brain space to it as I did in the beginning. No, I'm not really counting carbs. I'm, like you I'm looking at a meal and saying, Okay, that's 35 or that's 40. Or that's 45. I hardly ever think it's 50. But you know, I just sometimes I have to Bolus and then two hours later Bolus again, because I missed it.

Scott Benner 47:44
I would also wondering if you're doing a lot of I mean, you still lower carb. Right. But But you've had you're eating carbs. Do you? Are you seeing protein and fat rises? Do you think?

Michael 47:53
Yes. Without question. You know, so earlier on, I was doing extended Bolus isn't, you know, now, I don't do that as much or if, if at all, and I should, but you know, I'm staying in range. You know, my, my clarity says, I'm 94% in range. Well, the range is too wide. You know, and I think if my range on my CGM or narrower and I don't think I've haven't figured out how to change it, and she said, I couldn't change the range, because I think it's 70 to 180.

Scott Benner 48:29
In the clarity report, yeah, you can change that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, off the top my head, I'm not sure where but my my clarity reports 70 to 140. For RT

Michael 48:40
see that? I think that would be much better for me. Yeah. Because it'll spike up to, you know, 161 70, sometimes one ad, because I didn't Pre-Bolus And I know that's why it's doing that. Or I didn't extend the bowls, because I'm eating a lot of protein, which I usually do. I you know, I'm a barbecue guy. I do a lot of cooking. I love to cook, you know, so I'm just not giving it quite as much thought. I mean, it might even see yesterday was six. It was it for that it was 5.80. Good for you. Yeah, I went from 8.9 to 5.8 in three months. Wow. That's excellent. So you know, I think I'm doing really well. And so I can kind of put it back aside a little bit. And I realized yesterday that No, I can't do that. I really need to stay more on top of it and use the tools that I have more effective, right?

Scott Benner 49:34
And it's not the numbers. I mean, the numbers help you they guide you through it. But you're not just trying to not be 160 for three hours. That's not the point. The point is it's health. It's the thing, it's the thing you can't track until you don't you mean like it's either feel okay, or you don't and the oddity of course, is that once you don't feel okay for a while that feels okay. And that's that's part To the slippery slope, right? The Norm Yeah, it's just it's a little bit of crack Michael, just a little bit. Then two years later, you're laying on the sidewalk folded in half. And you know, you know, and that really is that it's what happens. It says, it's a slow water torture, you don't notice it at first it's drip, drip, drip, and then suddenly, you're a one C seven, then it's eight, then you're tired, then the muscles in your mouth don't want to work. And then you know, and you just like, and you can only compare back over a week or two in your mind. That's why pulling up that report is helpful. And what you're saying is if the report said to me, Hey, I'm not in range, as much as I want to be that would fire you to do the things you know, you need to do.

Michael 50:43
Yeah, I came in, after I got the pump on my next appointment, which was three months later. And, you know, my agency had plummeted. And my clarity said, all that time, I was like, 95 96% range. And I was man, I was the king of the hill, or mountain, I should say, you know, I felt so good about myself and how well I had done. But I think that's a little bit false.

Scott Benner 51:10
Well, nothing wrong with it, but then know what more, right?

Michael 51:14
Yeah, like, you want to be more accurate, you know. And so I think if I can figure out a way to change it to 140, you know, I'm going to be maybe 80% in range, you know, and she, she told me that, you know, my number is ridiculously high compared to her other patients. You know, so again, you know, that's an ego boost, and you feel like you're you're really kicking ass, but I think I could kick more ass if I if it was just in front of me all the time. Oh, I'm high. I'm 160. And that's high, I agree with you. I can do that mental calculation that I don't write on the screen telling me that that's high. And reminding me of it would be better for my health.

Scott Benner 51:57
What you're describing is no different than 16 years ago, where you said, I took the pill, so I'm good, right? No one wants to listen, like no one wants to do this. You know what I mean? Like no one, there's no one who's sitting around going, I'm super excited to take care of my diabetes today. Right? It's a it's a, it's a situation you find yourself in, you have to, you have to read level your brain and, and read, I don't know rejigger your expectations for what life is because if you keep having the expectation that I'm Superman, nothing's ever gonna happen to me. And then this stuff comes on your life? Well, you might get to be Superman for a much shorter time than you were hoping to be, you know, so why not? Why not? Me? Why not bet on yourself and give yourself longevity. And like, I mean, imagine that, you know, maybe one day, you'll get to stop playing the trumpet for money, but still get to play it for pleasure. You know, imagine those sorts of things being the truth for you. I just think it's impossible for us at any age, to imagine the future. And you have to try hard to do that. I've been talking a lot lately about watching my mother get older. And I just heard myself on an episode I put up yesterday, but that I recorded six months ago, where I told the person on the episode, I'm 50. But now I'm 51. And, and my mom is 80. And I am now believing that I'm in the last 15 good usable years of my life. And she says that 65 And I was like, I don't think I'm going to die at 65. I don't think that I'm going to be infirmed. But I see my mom and ad and that this is not a party. And then I start looking backwards at her through her 70s That wasn't a party either. So these are my 15 years to do something amazing. And then I'm going to decline. And hopefully it's a slow decline through my 60s and my 70s. But the person I am in my head today. And the things I want to do. I don't imagine a 68 year old me is going to be able to accomplish right and and if you don't take the time to stop and think of it that way and not be burdened by it. I'm not upset by the idea. I'm actually excited by the idea. Like for the first time in my life. I can I have enough context to realize that this time is not infinite. You know, you know, I was 20 I thought it was infinite. I was 30 I thought it was it. I remember being in my 30s and thinking I'll raise these kids. And then that's when Yeah, but what I didn't know was that and that's when COVID was gonna come and my knee was gonna need a surgery and like, I didn't have those expectations when I was 30. So you will apply this idea to diabetes. I mean, live now. Yeah, you know, live as best as you can now, and that's gonna give you more later. I yeah, I think you know,

Michael 54:55
my mom died at 68 and you know, the last 10 years of her life she was me miserable. And I'm just like her. I mean, I look like her. She was overweight, I'm overweight, my sister's overweight. I mean, it's it's a, you know, a jeans thing too. And, you know, even that wasn't enough for me to change anything. You know, I was motivated by career and family and hobbies, things that I really enjoyed doing,

Scott Benner 55:24
that you can control and that you are good at controlling to. Yes, right. Whereas the weight and the exercise all feels Yeah, I know, subconsciously, it feels like this is definitely gonna happen to me. There's nothing I can do about it. You didn't grow up? In a, I'm imagining you didn't grow up in a household where you had tools for that stuff. No. Right. And had somebody you grew up in a household where people worked hard, and had fun and cooked food, right? Yep. Yeah. And then precisely,

Michael 55:50
yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, there are times when I really tried hard on the exercise and diet thing when I was in my 40s. And, you know, I had some success, but it took so much time and energy and brain space. And this isn't a cop out. But, you know, so I would yo yo for a while, and finally I just said, Screw it, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm, you know, I'm gonna make use of this life in this time now, you know, in career and family and other interests, because it was just dogging me constantly. And, you know, to lose the weight that I did, you know, I think the lowest I ever got as an adult was like, I was 325 at this time, so I really needed to do it. And I'm glad I did. I think I got down to 216. Okay, you know, and so creeping up to 270. And staying there for years and years and years was okay, you know, and the diabetes was looming, but you know, I was taking the pills and then taking the injections. So, you know, I didn't make exercise, and diet at all, priority now that I'm on the pump, and, you know, very hyper aware of this, I'm still not exercising, I have great excuses for that, you know, and play those. But, you know, at some point, I'm going to have to figure out how to do some of that.

Scott Benner 57:21
Well, listen, you know, I, I play devil's advocate a lot on the podcast, and I argue both sides, because, you know, I think it helps. And I said earlier, you're not rich, you don't have infinite time in the gym in your house. But no one can tell me that they don't have a half an hour to just walk out the door, walk 15 minutes in one direction and walk 15 minutes back in the other direction. And that would be I think back to when I was a kid and my my aunt and her kids one summer just decided they were going to go for a walk every night. That's all they did. And I'm telling you this in the 70s. Right? Nobody understood nutrition. Trulicity didn't exist. If you had psoriatic arthritis. You know what that meant? Your elbow hurt? Nobody. You don't. I mean, like, nobody was looking at it anything. And so my point is, is that with very little fluff for the things that are available now, my aunt started going for a walk. And I'll be damned that three months later, when summer ended, she looked terrific. You know what I mean? Like she just was a person who worked hard. She owned her own business. She was pretty sedentary. And she made an hour for herself to go for a walk. It changed her life. Yeah, it genuinely did.

Michael 58:34
Well, we have a new puppy. So I have an another excuse to, you know, do a half hour walk. And I have actually started walking with the puppy for, you know, like a week now, just to try to train them up, you know. And my wife did exactly what you said she went on neum. And she lost. She's a small woman, but she lost a lot of weight and has maintained it. But she also retired in that time. She had more time. Yeah, when she started, she was still working. But

Scott Benner 59:04
I have a friend. I'm gonna say her name. I've never said it on here before she's done so much for this podcast that you guys will never know about. But Natalie, and she went on Noom. And to be honest with you, when she did it, I didn't think she like she was not a person I looked at and thought well, you better find a diet plan of some court. Like she looked terrific to me. But my goodness, is she in? Just I don't know what the hell it is. I don't know what they do, man. Terrific shape.

Michael 59:31
Yeah, it's really worked for her. Yeah, that's excellent. You know, so I'm looking at retirement probably in two and a half, three years, hopefully, if things work out well. So, you know, maybe then but, you know, I'm on sabbatical now, which is kind of a mini retirement. I'm still playing the trumpet at night. You know, like always, so that's that's a factor. But I've got more time than ever and I haven't used it to exercise.

Scott Benner 59:58
Well, I hope you do. And And, and I hope you I mean, these other things are obviously working great for you. I just saw it the other day, it was, like more of a Financial Times News story. But I think on the pod, I don't want to say this if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right, they're going to try a basil only, they're going to I think they're going to try to introduce a Basal only pump. And I assume, I assume that might be for, you know, the type two, emerging type two market where people are like, you know, you're, you could use a little help, but you don't need injections. You know, Bolus that meal. I don't, I don't know, I just saw it come across my newsfeed. I think it's great. Like, I know there are people are gonna say like, oh, it's Farman. That device manufacturers trying to push it, just do a sit up and go for a walk, you know, and I don't know, like, I've never had type two diabetes, you've just described something to me? Where do I sit up wasn't going to help you? Right? And you don't deserve for your life to go to hell because of that, you know? And nobody else does. Either. The people listening like you guys have got to just, you got it. I mean, I think the first thing is to get your information together before you go to a doctor. Because otherwise you walk in and you get the first thing that comes to their mind, or the thing they do in the office or whatever you need to go in and say, Hey, I think this is what's happening with me. Do you agree? And if you agree, I think this is what I should be doing about it. Can you help me?

Michael 1:01:26
That's precisely what I did. Right? You just described it to the tee. And, you know, fortunately, I found a young, knowledgeable, dynamic endocrinologist. I was like, Okay, I think you're right. Let's go. Yeah. And we did it fast.

Scott Benner 1:01:43
Good. Yeah. I mean, listen, Metformin has a ton of great uses. It's really a good drug. But you go to a 60 year old doctor, he's gonna give you Metformin. Yeah, you start talking to him about a continuous glucose monitor, and he's gonna stare at you going, I don't know what the hell that is. So you know, you need to, you need to go to somebody who I've had a friend on here, who's a doctor who told me he won't go to a doctor who's over 50. And he's a doctor who's over 50. So

Michael 1:02:13
no, you know, that happened to my sister her her. She was being treated and still is by her GP who's older than I am. And he she finally convinced him to give it give her a CGM. Yeah, but she's still, you know, MDI, you have to understand many, many problems, that your

Scott Benner 1:02:31
goal for yourself might not be the doctor's goal. The doctor might see you in a completely different way. Yes. Listen, you know, when we talk about big ideas, like you know, you know how, you know, when you talk about like government issues, and people get upset, well, they're not thinking about me. Well, they're not. You're right, your your your number, your statistic, and they are statistically trying to keep the country moving in a direction that's good for most people. And that can happen in medicine, too. Like, you might leave there thinking, I'm going to kick this. Michael is going to be the guy, I'm going to pull this together. And that guy might look at you and think, hey, if we can keep that guy alive five more years, that'll be great. Yes. I don't want people thinking about me that way. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Michael 1:03:19
Great characterization. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:20
Right. You you, your desire for yourself might not be their goal. Right? And they're not going to tell you like, you can't look the doctor in the face to go, Hey, you're just managing me into the grave. Right? That's what you're doing here. They're not gonna go Oh, yeah, that's exactly what we're doing. They're gonna say no, this is the best idea. They might look at you as a statistic. And you shouldn't treat yourself that way. You know, my Listen, apples and oranges. But my mom three days ago, oh, god, my goals. This is not going to make me cry. It will thank but three days ago, my mom moved into a new place. A year and a half ago, my mom was preparing to move from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin to live near my middle brother. We were getting things in order for that. And she was staying in in Pennsylvania long enough for my younger brother to get married in October. And in the weeks leading up to my brother's wedding. My mom's health deteriorated in a way that was it was frightening. She was clearly dying. To the point where we had had her in the hospital a couple of times. Nobody was giving her answers. And we had to take her to my brother's wedding in a wheelchair. A woman who did not walk us a wheelchair like a week before that. And the day after the wedding, my brother and I might my middle brother and I sat down and I said mom's dying. Like, I don't know what's happening, but she is we're going to stop listening to whatever these doctors are saying I'm going to take over and I put her in a car and I took her to a cardiologist. I literally made them see her. And I said, if this is not cardio, tell me right now she examined her. She said, It looks like heart failure. But I don't think that's what it is. Back to the hospital. It's COVID time we're sitting in the waiting room for hours. My mom's bladder is so full, it's just spilling out of her. She can't but she can't urinate. This has been going on for a while. I go to the woman at the desk and I say you have to go drain my mom's bladder. I made the woman at the desk do it like and she was kind and she did it. But she she was a nurse. She went and did it. And then later when my mom got imaged because that two liters, Michael of urine, they thought, oh my gosh, they were able to see her cancer when they imaged her. But every other time she was in the hospital. They imaged her with the full bladder and couldn't see the tumor. That crazy. So it's crazy. You figure out it's cancer. It's bad. It's a, you know, softball size on one of her ovaries. She's got it in a couple of other places. Doctor comes in looks at her says she's not strong enough for surgery. He sends her to a rehab center, go to the rehab center for two weeks, really kick ass, get yourself in shape. A week before Michael, my mom was fine. Like this had just deteriorate her so much. And then she does the rehab passes everything. And we just don't hear from the doctor. He had no interest in doing the surgery on my mom. So I pin him down on the phone. I'm not going to kill your mom in surgery. And I'm like, is she going to die anyway? And he goes, Yeah, in like a month or two. And I was like, well, then she wants the surgery, give her the surgery. Now I'm not doing that. If my neighbor's son doesn't grow up to be an orthopedic who went to medical school with a girl who grew up to be a guy, no oncologist. I don't know if my mom's alive. All right, take her to the doctor's office doctor says you're gonna be dead in two months. If we don't do this surgery. I'm happy to do it for you. A year later. And a month later, my mom moved to Wisconsin and moved into our new place. Wow, if we would have listened to the first doctor, she would have died about nine months ago. Right? It's just you have to be the one to say I don't accept what you're saying. And you keep saying that until either you get success. Or it's over. But you don't give up while you have the breath to say it. That be your own advocate 100%. Yeah, but it's easy to say that to people be an advocate for yourself. But what does that mean? Like? Like, it's why I tell my mom's story because, yeah, a lot had to go into this to make it happen. You know, my mom doesn't have any money. We had to run this through Medicare. My brother had to teach himself the Medicare system like, like it was we were going to appointments and sitting in Ha I would record this podcast, go to a hospital sit with my mom all afternoon. Right? I'd leave my brother would come and sit with her all night. You know, and it up. It was hard. But now it's fascinating. You should say her. And then by the way, then she had to live in a home for a year to get her cancer treatments. My mom then had to go through chemo. And she, she fought through the whole thing. But while she was there, there were things about our health where we were like, hey, you know, she seems like she's retaining water. And they would make 1000 excuses. In the month that she in the last 50 days, my mom's lived in Wisconsin, she had to stay with my brother to establish residency. My brother focused on her health. The picture I saw her yesterday, she looks incredible. They changed her medications and did things for that the place she was living at was supposed to do and they weren't. You know, I don't know. You just either want to be alive or you don't? You know? Yes. And it's not as easy as just get up in the morning and go to work. And I'm sorry, it's not but it isn't. So yeah. Take care of yourself. That's all. Yeah. I'm sorry. I got it. No,

Michael 1:09:22
no, no, it's important.

Scott Benner 1:09:23
What are we not talking about that you want to talk about?

Michael 1:09:30
Seriously, Scott, I think we covered it really well. I had a few talking points in my head as I prepared for this. And I think I think we've hit them all. You know, the overall message that I want to send to type twos is to just do a little research. There's so many resources out there. You know, I read one book and my life was changed. I discovered one podcast and it isn't even done by a doctor. her, right, I found one podcast was captivated by the subject matter and the way it was delivered. And anybody can do that anybody, anybody can find a book or an online forum, where people have been through it who know a lot, who knows, some people know as much as your doctors do. So I would just encourage those of you that are in a position where you're just now starting to deal with type two, just get your fingers going and find out that information. I delayed it way too long. I'm a smart guy, I read a lot. You know, and I am professional. And in a lot of ways, you know, I have a lot of interests and things that I can do. And if I had just made this one of them earlier on, when I was first diagnosed, you know, I'd probably be in a lot better shape than I am now.

Scott Benner 1:11:00
So I'm glad, glad you found it. And that's a great message, I put up a, you know, you've talked about the Facebook group. So for people who are listening and don't know, I have a private Facebook group that has 30,000 Plus members in it. They're all talking about, you know, day to day stuff, management ideas, they help each other with problems. You know, it's I find it to be the kindest place on Facebook I've ever seen. And it's awesome. I worked hard to get it that way. So I'm proud that it works that way. But I put up a post the other day. I put up a post the other day, because you know, a couple of times a year. I my frustration gets to be too much. Right? So my frustration, right? I my background frustration is constantly that I know what this podcast does. Right? I've heard your story, and almost 1000 others like it. And it's still hard to get the word out. Like it's hard to get people to start to listen. And so my biggest hurdle is to get just try it. Because I think if you try it, you're gonna be okay, you know. So I put up this long post, and I just said to people, like, you know, I wish you would listen to the podcast and share it with people. You know, it'll help the podcast grow. When it grows, it gets bigger, when it gets bigger, someone else's diagnosed, then they find it. And then the post sort of started hard turning into like, well, here's what the podcast has done for me. They're trying to keep the posts alive. So other people see it, which is lovely. And one of the people said, I was an adult type one. And I found this thing, because so many people told me, and then I get there, and the host doesn't have diabetes isn't a doctor, you know what I mean? And she said, she was like, What? What am I doing here? You know? And then she said, it was just kept happening. Just people kept saying, You should do this, watch this. Listen to this. And she finally did. And then she describes her success. And it's wonderful. I don't know why. I don't know why I'm gonna talk about this Michael. Like I really don't like I you know, I mean, we can all guess about it, that helped my daughter and everything. But it all just comes together for whatever when you and I got on before we started recording. He said, Oh, you have a great voice for radio. Even that is dumb luck. And maybe wonder why the podcast works. You know what I mean? So part of it? Definitely. Yeah, you know, so anyway, I know I don't have diabetes, and I don't have type two diabetes. I'm type one diabetes. I've never been to medical school. I barely graduated from high school, Michael, for all being really honest with each other. But I'm good at this. So yes, let it go. Go find the defining diabetes episodes, the Pro Tip series. What else helped you?

Michael 1:13:39
Well, I've read think like Pancras. Yeah, Gary's book was before us before I started on the podcast. And he mentions the podcast in there, and a bunch of people online had mentioned it. So you know, it was multiple mentions, like you. You said a minute ago that pulls you along. They got me listening to it. And I listened to it in the car when I'm commuting.

Scott Benner 1:13:59
Right. That's perfect time. And Jenny, who, by the way, works for the guy who wrote the book that that Michael brought up. That's right. Yeah. But she's on the show once a week where we talk about stuff. So I love her. Yeah, terrific. All right. Well, I can't thank you enough for spending the time talking about this with me. I hope more people with type two. I hope they find ways to help themselves really is what I'm, I guess I'm I'm hopeful for and I am going to go quickly pack a bag and drive down the eastern seaboard to pick my daughter up from college. That's the rest of my day. So right yeah, great for you, but I'm going to be in the car for 12 hours.

Michael 1:14:36
I know but you get to see her. It's exciting. Yeah, we're all

Scott Benner 1:14:39
really excited to get her home

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. Je Vogue glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juice box. You spell that? G V O KEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. And I'd like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and remind you to go to contour next one.com forward slash juice box, get an incredibly affordable and accurate meter. You deserve it. If you're interested in being on the podcast and you have type two diabetes, please find me and reach out through my website juicebox podcast.com. If you're looking for support, check out that Facebook page Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private group, you'll answer just a couple of questions to be admitted. And then you'll be in there with 31,000 Plus members, all who have diabetes, use insulin, understand what it's like to have to watch what you eat, count carbs, the whole thing. Go find them. It's a great resource. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget when you support the sponsors with my links, you're supporting the production of the Juicebox Podcast and keeping it free

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